| Hi Ya, good to see you dropped by.
I created this blog Because there is a sincere need for people in the UK, who find themselves in a church right now that has endorsed everything that is coming out of Bethel Church, Redding California – to discuss what they are seeing & weighing against sound Godly principles laid out in the bible… This is the Blog for you! I know you have many questions; I have been through this journey myself & still have questions. You are welcome to comment but please remember: any comments need to be made with honour & integrity & respect… discussion is fine, personal attack is not. I’m not going to get into debate about whether Bill Johnson or any other leaders are in the right or the wrong.. The word of God is the final Authority… in deciding what is appropriate for christian people to believe, teach & action in their lives .. please post on that basis… If you are defender of Bethel you had better be able to square your discussion Biblically. please please stay on Topic… please respect confidentiality where it is needed – remember that anyone could read your postings. This blog is for people in the UK, in you are from elsewhere please feel free to gather information but also know there are some other excellent blogs which have lots of information which you may find more specific. you are so welcome to the Blog Enjoy! Zazzy |
Rooftops & Rafters 
Thanks Zazzy for this site, and opening up the conversation around this topic.
I am part of an independent church that has been looking to form a relationship with a broader church community in order to not be too isolationist, help with leadership accountability and broaden our perspective. As part of this process we did flirt for a time with getting closer to a church that is very aligned to all things Bethel. We had a few touch points, but the one that really decided me against that avenue was a conference at which Danny Silk was speaking. One phrase he used in particular really rankled with me – it was along the lines of describing prayer as ‘one incredibly powerful person, talking to another’. The implication of some sort of equality with God, and the lack of reverence and humility from a creature to a creator was very disturbing to me. I am not sure any of others I spoke to about this really got the problem I was having, but reading some of the material that points to the thinking that we are all ‘gods’ helps to show this concern is real. Independently of this I have also noticed that a “decree and declare” approach to praying has crept into our church which is something I have now called out and which we will be exploring together soon.
Hi, I am from South Africa, don’t know if I am permitted to comment here, going to take a chance anyway! A lot of churches hang on to religion, which is based on man made doctrines with pagan background. I had a terrible experience (been studying the Word of YHVH for a few years now and I don’t think I have begun to understand and know all His Mercy and Love for us). I moved into my mothers’ place about 5 weeks ago, and since then I started feeling “drunk” at times, until it got so bad that when I arrive home in the afternoon I started falling over my own feet like a complete drukard even before I walk into mom’s place. I asked Father YHVH in prayer about a week ago to please show me whats going on, what doors needs to be closed so I can carry on with my life. Then I by accident saw two videos about the kundalini spirit, but being in a “semi coma of drunkenness and so disorientated”, I did not recognize what YHVH is showing me. Then last night after I was just lying on the bed, no energy to get up or actually sit up straight, He used my little 4 year old girl to show me! She started digging in gran’s books hidden in one corner, it’s huge books so she started carrying the books one by one off the high pile, until she got to one… Chakra, the awakening. Then she stopped taking the books off the pile and walked away with that book at the top, glaring at me 🙂 I immediately Anointed the house and all of us, and started spiritual warfare.
Needless to say, we all slept like babies (I started suffering from sleep depravation, shocking as I was so tired and drunk it was even an effort to eat, and I love eating…) plus I am no longer acting “drunk”. I truly believe it was a spirit associated with the kundalini and chakra etc trying to invade my temple. Churches do not teach these kind of things, as they all form part of the one world order. I rely on the Word of YHVH and the Blood of YAHUSHUA and the Ruach Hakodesh to teach me, so far it’s worked out quite well, without the bindings of the churches of which most fall under Roman Catholic doctrines and rules, which are very contradictive to our Father’s word.
I want to study the Torah, the original scriptures, so that’s next on my agenda.
I am going to research a bit more on the kundalini or false holy spirit, thank you for your article, I enjoyed it a lot and it was a good starting point to confirm what YAH has pointed out to me.
Shalom, love and blessings from South Africa.
thank you Rick.. this is a very useful contribution… I think when you say it is the responsibility of the local church to discern & pick & choose from other churches etc… I agree with you here on one level…
the trouble is tho- that it is that discernment – we see is sadly lacking…. all too often people whether they be leaders with a responsibility for others or not are all too easily accepting most of anything on the basis that such & such who they admire “has no prob with it” & is implementing/teaching encouraging it for their own lives & for others— instead of going back to the word for qualification as to whether an emphasis or teaching or practice is appropriate & Godly many are weighing these things on a measure other than the dependable – authority of the word of God..
I have in fact removed the you tube clip from Jenn Johnson but I did watch it through… now the question I have for you is this: does it not bother you that this lady who is speaking into the hearts of worship leaders the things of God – did not even bring a bible along – let alone read/ or teach out of it? you see they received teaching from her heart… there was a huge implication from the things she was sharing – (whilst some of it was good & quite ok) – that we are to be “mini Gods” she even touched on that “mini me” reference to God at one point.. for that reason I’m not going to post it on the blog – as this is pure – even if subtle Word of Faith teaching
did you pick up on the comment she made about past revivalists “running past their grace” that has to be utter tosh — we receive grace from a risen saviour it is his & his alone to give & given it he has… we cannot fall from it through burnout or not achieving faith goals etc…
Rick you said we can pick up a lot that is good without taking the bait hook line and sinker. Not without discernment we cant — & the only way to be discerning is to know what God’s word actually says – if people are not hearing the word of God & not being encouraged that it is extremely important to know what it says in their understanding of who God is as a foundation- then ultimately none of us will know what is bait or hook or line or sinker… it all gets thrown together. under a sense of “we must have more of God”
this is where I found myself at – trying to have proper discussions with our leaders — their response was that they were right – couldnt be deceived in any way – we had “attitude” for even daring to bring a question -this demonstrated we were not in unity & if we didn’t fully embrace what was being “imparted” they would ultimately have to remove us from any positions of leadership.
so here we were trying to be discerning – sharing how we felt that all of these things being brought in were not lining up with the word of God… my heart was to sound a warning but instead we got character assasinated — see my perspective is that they want soooo much of God & yet when you bring something that is Godly from his word that is a challenge to the current position — our leaders could not & would not hear it… this has to be a huge red flag that the whole spirit in this movement is off centre.. because right at the core of things discernment is not encouraged on the basis that it disrupts unity & brings negativity into the camp.
I am in no way trying to set up a “ministry” but it is interesting to me that other people have reported the very same responses when they too have brought up their own concerns/questions about what they have seen & heard…
the level of bullying & oppression from Christian leaders we received was horrendous… this blog is here to help people that have been through this experience know that they are not on their own… I am sounding a warning bell as someone has to….
Ephesians 5 v 11 Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them. ESV
I have just discovered this site, and am amazed to find that many of my concerns are addressed in this the first blog that I have read. I have just left a church that has become involved. I am not happy to have left the church, but cannot go along with what is being taught , so it is reassuring to find that there are other who have had the same experience as I had. It seems that it is not just me!
HI Brian – a very warm welcome to the blog
Im so sorry that you have had to make the difficult decision to leave your church… I know exactly how hard that is… but well done for standing up for truth… you are quite right in that you cannot go along with what is being taught if it is error — to do so puts you in error before King Jesus.. it becomes an untenable situation… you have made the right choice – we salute you & support you..
please feel free to ask questions & post comments it is incredibly helpful for us all….& from experience, I know this helps process – what you have been through – what many of us here have been through…
praying for you
welcome – keep in touch
Zazzy
I just want to comment that it is the duty of the local church to use sense in what they pick and choose from other churches. For instance, this video of Jenn Johnson, daughter-in-law to Bethel leader Bill Johnson, has a qualtiy of realness to it. clip removed
On the other hand, when I hear some of the other happenings, I am wondering at what is happening – is it really as these people reporting it say it is? If it really is, then the church needs to discern whether these things are useful. We are ultimately responsible for our own spiritual growth, and we can pick up a lot that is good without taking the bait hook line and sinker.
That’s why God put us in churches, so that we could discuss these things together. If you have questions, speak to your church leaders and ask questions, like say, “Is it just me, or are there others who find that _____ is not really helpful to growing in grace?”
Just saying, after 40 years of being in the Lord, I have heard a lot of people say things that are negative about various ministries, saying they are cults, etc., but yet my own experience of those ministries in not the same as theirs. But each one needs to make up their own mind, and not spend so much time trying to review the actions of others. (- I’m no fan of Brannon Howse and Worldview Weekend. I know some who are just enamoured with that ministry, however)
No offense, if what you are trying to do is establish your own ministry in the way God wants you to go. God has promised to guide you into all truth through His Holy Spirit. He is right there, cheering you on to victory. He does not want to see you fall into false worship. So if you confess your need to Him, He won’t slap you upside of the face for asking. It is His delight to see you through, just like a mom or dad with their little one. That is so what God does.
Sorry for wandering. Blessings in Christ,
Rick
The problem is that my experience was that discussion and exploration was not permitted. I was the leader of the Bible Study group, and we discussed many things, and tried to explore all that was in scripture relating to the subject, but the Bible Study was closed down in favour of imported DVDs that were badly produced, boring and lacking in scriptural content. The first one that I encountered I thought had probably keen made by a new Christian who had a lot of enthusiasm but did not really know his bible. I was surprised to learn that it was the product of a Californian Megger-church.
this is exactly how it goes Brian… sadly …. suddenly anything that yours (& mine) sound & solid walk in Spirit & in Truth… that produces a life time of genuine reliability,integrity & wisdom as far as it goes is no longer wanted or encouraged – in favour of DVD teachings – which when we break them down are experiential experimental storytelling…
of course, this produces the wow, come on Jesus – amaze me mindset… especially in the younger person & the immature Christian who is not being trained or built up in the word by those believers around him or her.. (not their fault either)
the saddest thing for me is, that of course, this is now the presentation of what “Christianity” is… people think it’s IT…. by implication then, everything sound & solid we built our foundations upon – like God’s actual written word – is out dated, irrelevant & not secure enough for us to remain “supernaturally spiritual” – we have been inadequately discipled all these years… we better get our act together to get in the revival then…. lest we are not “good” enough….
see where this ends up… in this ridiculous place – which is now looking like “salvation” by works – certainly acceptance by others on the basis of ones willingness to demonstrate “agreement” – conditional
I so glad you have seen this for yourself & decided to stay solid & secure in God’s word.. its my prayer that many many more would do so too..
Hey Brian, I was under the impression the Bible study was stopped for other reasons. Interesting though…..what are the DVD’s that are being used in favour of…..would like to check them out. Do you know if I would be able to access them online?
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