please post the story of your journey


heres mine originally posted-

http://mkayla.wordpress.com/2011/07/16/an-escape-from-bethel-and-the-false-prophetic/

July16 2011  Zazzy:

I really wanted to share my story too as my church in the UK has become well & truly Bethelized, the transition into it has been a subtle & underhanded invasion, swapping of truth for error, what Im posting is about that journey of utter deception & how it gets in.

late 2009- Bill Johnson comes to my town in a big church wide event…. some time after that mtg (I didnt go to it because I really dont like big events) our senior pastor sat down with some leaders & discussed the audacity of bethel people visiting mind/body/spirit./psychic type fairs & setting up stalls that would offer to pray for healing & prophesy over people that would frequent such a place… 1st red flag no gospel preached/ & irresponsible – how on earth do people who are mostly drawn to occult practices discern & distinguish & make appropriate responses to that which is reportedly from a Holy God in that type of setting. ok I know god can reach anyone anywhere anyhow – but this “method” promotes spiritual confusion I believe in people who are dead to sin & lost to HIM.

May 2010: a group of leaders form our church & around the town visit Bethel… they return “odd’ different but not in a good way – immediately there is a lot of praying for individuals in the church by laying a hand on the forehead without the individual’s permission – these leaders just go up & “minister”- shouting & whooooaing in prayer times… also wafting hand movements during prayer times. my ” mentor’ who I love dearly & know very well now exhibits a subtle change in personality & has experienced a range of ill health ever since.
Red Flag 2: the language begins to change – we hear about impartation/intoxication of the spirit & relationship with father/ the work of Jesus on the cross becomes lessend as we focus on a culture of developing the prophetic/miracles & concentrate on being family

we see for the first time the practice of “fire tunnels”

rest of 2010…. we begin to immerse in Jesus culture music – begin preparing plans to launch our own healing rooms.. the “culture of honour” is widely talked about promoted from the senior leadership team.

Red flag 3: even though a culture of honour & doing everything from a place of loving relationship/family is promoted big time – various circumstances present themselves where honour should have been highly practiced – where in fact the opposite could be said

2011- senior leadership from Bethel visit the church. its obvious people form other places in the UK flock to hear the latest word.

healing rooms begins

Students from Bethel BSSM visit the town: we actively see for the first time prophetic art & the interpretation of it in our service time- soaking or what they would call “carpet time” is evident & other new phrases begin to pop into our language

* being whacked by God – get whacked – stay whacked – never go back
* get activated in the spirit/prophetic
* we want Jesus to get what he died for ( in relation to miracles)
* release & freedom become Big words
* Host the prescence
* More More & More

Red flag 3: senior leaders are imparting drunkeness to each other (& everyone else)- rolling around on floor – throwing love/bliss bombs at each other. & stating that they feel so drunk they are not sure how they could drive home. some of the behaviour they exhibit & allow would have been considered demonic & or worthy of discipline 20/25 years ago

present: *church decides to set up its own supernatural school of ministry
* other leaders visit to Bethel & other conferences around the uk & return using odd & confusing language – mostly pointing to the idea that Gods word was for then & the spirit or the flow (of the new wine) is for now
* we go totally overboard on the prophetic – with instruction form the senior leaders to develop, be ready & willing to give a prophetic word to literally anyone, anywhere, anytime.

Red flag 4: the occult creeps in: we now use Bethel’s offering readings ( look it up on their website) when we collect our tithes & offerings – this to me is nothing short of an incantation – a list of demands to get what WE want from God including “divine manifestations” & angelic visitations.
people are encouraged to place a cloth on their head during prayer at HR
& we are also offering people ” spiritual readings” this is where various prayers are written on cards & people are encouraged to randomly select one & have a leader pray over them for fulfillment in that area – just feels like home grown Tarot.

After all of this I have to say IM OUT – they will have my resignation by the end of the week !

I just felt I wanted to post all this so that others can see how this has happened chronologically like a drip drip drip effect of Blurrgh! which has sucked many in

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44 thoughts on “please post the story of your journey

  1. Hi there Zazzy,
    Just want to post my and my husbands journey.
    I thank you for your website as having just left the organised church about 3 weeks ago it feels really quite strange and sereial.
    Our church wasn’t obviously Bethelized on the surface, but God showed us and lead us on a journey of discovery.
    We started at this church almost 3 years ago, it was an independent church not allied to any denomination. But the church was battered by pride and control in the leadership and then a heresy ,false gospel crept in albeit slowly – I call it the Hyper- grace heresy , and it ripped the church apart . Lots of people were hurt and left , we almost did then but felt God was not calling us out of that church at that time.
    Well it was about 18 months ago now that Elim took the church over and we had a new pastor.
    Things seemed to be going okay, we were very small in number between 20 – 25 , over the months more people left. We were doing some outreach but the church still didn’t grow.
    We had prayer meetings, and some Bible studies. But as time went on the message from the front didn’t seem to change any, was all about Gods love and acceptance , which is wonderful and true but not much about , sin, ( pastor called it stuff ) nothing on repentance, holiness, the fear of the Lord, judgement , hell etc.
    We were getting fed from listening to pastors like David Wilkerson and Cartor Conlan from Times Square Church as well as reading the Bible.
    The longer this went on the the worse we felt , we were not having the whole gospel of Jesus Christ and therefore as Paul says in ,
    2 Corinthians 11 v 4 , ” For if anyone comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached ,or you receive a different spirit which you have not received , or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear with this beautifully .”

    Then a new lady already a christian gave her testimony , well she had gone to America to go the Bethel church , Redding Ca.
    The end of the testimony she mentioned that as later on when she was praying that gold dust manifested from her eyes as she wept!
    Well this lead me on a journey of finding out. All the Torronto stuff etc from 1990’s God had kept me disinterested by it- one does not need to fly half way around the world to chase after an anointing/ blessing.
    Anyway I already was wary about Bill Johnson , but there is sooo much out there that is false , made me feel sick watching some people crawling around the floor barking like dogs, pastors so “drunk in the spirit” that they can hardly speak or stand up! I found out about the Kundalini Spirit , Andrew Strom , read his two books, searched out Hindu videos on YouTube was shocked at what I found.
    God had just lead me into the Deliverence ministry at our church and I had been for training at Ellel ministries,( not Sozo!! ).
    So I am fully aware of the demonic.
    My pastor overheard me mention the gold dust in church ( I was speaking very quietly ) and I was taken out to the prayer room for a chat!
    Well the long and short of it is I confronted her about the gold dust, gems, feathers falling glory clouds etc and Bill Johnson and Todd Bently etc. she did admit some of it was demonic ( like the barking like dogs ) but was fine with gold dust and Bethel church Redding Ca and Todd Bentley. At this point I was taken off the Deliverance ministry.
    At another meeting I felt God wanted me to bring to her attention about not preaching the whole gospel. I’d rather not have had to do this was not easy she is a very strong minded person.
    Well it was not accepted , she took me out if the worship team and my husband off the PA.
    It was not sour grapes at all on our part just sadness and I prayed a lot for our pastor and weeping for her to see the deception, but my husband and I both knew we could not stay in this church anymore. We had done what we felt God had called us to do but now was time to leave . I sent a nicely worded email to her but have not yet had a reply that was 3 weeks ago.
    Since then I have done more research and found out that Elim church is well into NAR , Bill Johnson etc. so the whole Elim movement has been infiltrated by lies of the enemy. It is very very sad. And I pray for God to have mercy and open their eyes to the deception they are in.

    • Sarah thanks for your very heartfelt account . We certainly know & share in your pain in having to leave a church much loved .. you have done the right thing. We just can’t stick around accepting complacently all of these things when we feel convicted that things are just not right.. sadly, ultimately it is the only way some leaders will realise that there is a huge check in the spirit in those who stand up to say it like it is, confront it in a godly honourable way. If many more had the courage to do so these leaders of false teaching would simply have no one to lead..

      To stay means to these leaders that you have ” bought in”. Or jumped in the river of renewal. In the end the inner tensions of hypocrisy just become too much to bear. But you are right. If not the true Gospel then it’s something else & that other thing is a big indicator of error. Thank you for your courage in standing up. I pray your experiences will bring confidence & inspiration to others who are very much wrestling & struggling. & our God is bigger than all of this yuk!

      Blessings. Z

  2. Wow, I am without words. I came out of this “movement” a few years ago with the help of Andrew Strom’s, Kundalini Spirit. The false spirits that are invading the Church. I agreed with savedbygraceo7 above, “how are they being deceived so badly?” Interesting, isn’t it.?True, all about feeling. Someone imparted a spirit in me that led me to dreams and visions so heavily, I was led to get off my synthroid through a dream where I could have slipped into a coma and died. The dreams I had were dreams that gave me direction and tried to take me to my death. It certainly was a “drunk in the spirit” as they call it. God allowed me to go through it so I could share it with others. This is a dangerous movement that twists and turns God’s Word to suit themselves. 2 Timothy 4:3 says it well: “For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.” Activation is A “new thing” – not biblical. It teaches the individual to close their eyes and from there you will see a picture. This is the picture that gives hope from God?? No!! actually it is no different than conjuring up spirits from the same place a psychic goes. There is no other Hope than God Himself. “May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace as you trust in Him, so that you may overflow with hope by the power of the Holy Spirit.” Romans 15:13.
    I am so thankful for this website and for all those preparing information for the church leaders and friends. I have been doing the same thing for 3 years and remain standing faithful. Isa.7:9
    Eph 5:11 says, “Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. It is the end times…God is using some to warn others because He is so patient, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 2 Peter 3:9
    God’s warning :1 John 4:1 – Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
    This website is greatly needed. Thank you!!!

    • Hi Kathy & welcome. I’m so glad you found the strength to leave please do contribute your thoughts to our many posts & threads as it’s so helpful to others on their journey. Blessings Z

  3. I went to Bethel Elementary school for fourth through seventh grade. This is the same Bethel in Redding that is home to Bethel School of Supernatural Ministry.
    My parents were divorced so while I was going to school, I lived with my mom, and during the summers and vacations I lived with my dad. My dad is part of the messianic Israel community, and has a vastly different interpretation of the scripture than anyone at Bethel. During my summers I spent countless hours reading the scriptures with my dad and step mom. Because of this I had a far better grasp of what the bible said than my peers, I never quite fit in. On several occasions I got detention for debating the bible with my bible teacher. Even when I was young and a christian, Bethel never sat right with me.
    We would have chapel every Thursday. It mostly consisted of hypnotic “christian music” followed by a small teaching by Bill Johnson or, our principle Mr. Mayer. You would see kids rolling on the floor, talking nonsense, and just running around. This behavior was encouraged. We would have fire tunnels, and if you didn’t have a “revelation” or some kind of seizure you could feel the disappointment from your teachers.
    When I was young I could identify when they were saying something wrong about the bible, that was easy. I was not able to identify a lot of the spiritual and emotional deception that was happening, because a lot of it is underhanded. As an adult, I think I can pinpoint it more correctly.
    As an atheist, I might disagree with your religion, but if it makes you happy, and it is not harming anyone else, I could care less what you believe, or what church you attend.
    As an atheist, and a human being, I find Bethel repulsive. Bethel is a scam to get your money.They target people who are at low points in their lives, or who are emotionally vulnerable. This is typical predator behavior. When you read stories of people who went to Bethel, you can see that this is consistently the case.
    When Bethel gets you into one of their church services, they use their music to get induce a trance like state. If you have read some of these comments, you will see what I am talking about. They play that “new modern music” for a reason. They repeat the same line over and over for a reason. Its to make your more suggestible.
    They play to your wants and desires. Their sermons and prophesies are targeted to make you feel good. This keeps you coming back.
    Bethel is somehow able to convince people to pay them money to learn how to be better spiritual leaders. This course is not accredited. You can only transfer your credits to a few christian colleges. Unfortunately, this program leads people to emptiness. I have seen it time and time again. I live in Redding. I work with BSSM students. I am neighbors with former students. Bethel students are everywhere in this town, and too often I hear about their disillusionment.
    As weird as Bethel was when I attended their elementary school eleven years ago, It has only grown weirder. Their teachings have grown more convoluted. The book they claim to base their beliefs in is rarely actually mentioned in services. If anything should rub people the wrong way, their lack of consistency should.

    • I am gladdened and encouraged that the christian community also has reservations concerning this church and its ministries.

      (My last sentence got cut off from my post. lol.)

      • Sarah, the Christian community — the true “Body of Christ” that holds to scripture as the unassailable definition of loving, responsible Christianity — is offended and horrified by the false gospel coming out of Bethel Redding and other new-age, occultic groups. I for one welcome and appreciate atheists like you who have a critical mind and consistent approach to these things, just like I support those like James Randi who make it their mission to expose lies and trickery among false believers. You, and they, do us all a service when you expose lies and abusive behaviors for what they are.

        I’m sorry your experiences seem to have soured you on the message of Jesus (the real Jesus). I hope you may be able to some day look past the abusers, fakers, and moneymakers and see that the authentic Jesus of Nazareth does indeed have many real followers who, though we are human, imperfect, and sinful, nonetheless want nothing else so much as to know the truth and act accordingly. My prayer is that you find peace from the abuses you endured, and may at some point feel led to give God another chance to speak love and healing into your life.

        Regardless, a voice of reason is always welcome, even if we don’t agree on some things.

        -Bill

  4. I think it is important to talk about International House of Prayer in Kansas City Missouri, also. I came out of an “IHOP’d” Church. (We had Bethel come in also, but more IHOP.) I was a new Christian and went to as many IHOP conferences as I could, did an internship at my church, I would travel far for conferences too, all kinds of stuff. It took me until I was standing in the very back of a giant auditorium filled with 25,000 people halfway across the country for God to open my eyes to what was going on. It was confusing and scary and I didn’t understand it, but I was standing there about to lift my hands and suddenly I knew that what I was seeing was not a gathering to glorify the true God, but a different, very dark, spirit.
    IHOP is just as much of a cult, just as much insanity, just as big of a movement. It scared the crap our of me when I realized what I was into. It took me months to get my sanity back, with terrifying “prophetic” dreams, confusion about reality, wondering if God was even real, and even thoughts of suicide. You see, right after a very powerful conversion, I started going to this church, I knew no other way of doing church than what I had been giving my life to the past year, and to have my eyes opened that way, halfway across the country from my home, was very traumatic for me. I wish I could explain all of the spiritual details, but just know that it was bad. I’m an all or nothing kind of a girl and to come out of the sin I was living in, to see God, and then immediately give myself completely to this movement I though was God, only to find out it was from Satan, was terrifying.
    This “charismatic movement” is not from God and it is also not just Bethel or IHOP. I believe this false spirit has been around for quite some time and is beginning to re-brand itself, figuring out how to perfect it’s act. I still know people who are insane from this false spirit. IHOP in Kansas City Missouri and their 24 hour “worship” rooms are a deadly combination of truth and lies and it fooled me. They really do combine the bible and teachings of Jesus with this “Kundalini” spirit and it can deceives even the elect, but I believe only for a time. To a believer, it may look like truth but it feeds on pride and righteousnesses and also feeds the desire in a Christian’s life to see miracles.
    True miracles happen, I’ve seem them, I believe there are gifts of the spirit because I’ve seen them, been healed and such. It happened growing up when my dad would fast and read the word of God and then pray for me and others in faith, not when someone stands over you and shouts “fire” at the top of his lungs and tries to push you backward to flop around like a drunk fish.
    After all this, in the following months as I read my bible again, I couldn’t believe all of the scriptures about false teachers there are in the bible, about becoming mature as to not be thrown to and fro with every wind of doctrine, about testing the spirits and about false signs and wonders! It’s all there and I’m wondering,, how did I never see or get taught about these verses in all my learning? It’s really all there. There is also Isaiah 51:21 where it says “Therefore please hear this, you afflicted, And drunk, but not with wine..” You can read it in context, but I found that very interesting. He seems to be saying the drunkenness is the wrath of God, but he does promise to restore his people.
    Anyways, here’s part of my story. Three years later and it is still hard for me to go to church so say a prayer for me. I know God will lead those who love him into all truth, and I know God has good plans for me, but sometimes it does feel lonely not having any one in my life besides my father who really understands things like this.
    But to those of you who feel the same, do not lose hope. He always has a remnant and remember when you pray for your friends or family who still may be involved that the we’re not fighting with people, the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty in God to the pulling down of strongholds, CASTING DOWN VAIN IMAGINATIONS and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of the living God. Also, the effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much, and guess who our righteousness comes from? It comes from Jesus. That’s all we need. Prayer is powerful, faith is powerful, and don’t be afraid to speak the truth in love also because God WILL confirm His word with signs following. Say a prayer in faith for a loved one and kick a hole in the enemies defenses in their life. God has not forsaken his Church. Keep praying everyone.

  5. The real fruit of Bethel and why I left
    I’m writing this for anyone thinking of moving to Redding, CA in order to attend Bethel or BSSM. I’m writing for those who already moved here that are starting to wonder what they are actually involved with. The times when something really doesn’t seem scriptural, or there is a sense unreality in it all are nudges by God to pay attention. I’m writing for loved ones who have family caught up in the deception here about what it took to un-deceive a devoted follower of Bethel.

    My returning to spiritual purity and sanity came slowly after a complete immersion in all things “Bethel”. I’ve lived in Redding 2 and 1/2 years now. The first 6 months, I was at the prayer room often at 2 am, very devoted to that ministry fancying myself a “prayer warrior”. I also came to every conference, every time the doors opened, several services a week. It was the music that drew me at first, but in retrospect I understand one doesn’t bit the apple or drink the kool aid of deception if something in their own life is not sliding off the rails of truth.

    Someone called this Spiritual Disneyland, its a good name, and the teaching is cotton candy, it looks good, it tastes sweet, but it will rot your teeth out and destroy your health spiritually. I remember hearing teaching that didn’t promote humility in me but a demanding/commanding approach to God, telling God what to do, ordering him around as if I was his general. I became arrogant in my spiritual entitlement and had the eye opening experience of co-workers that were from Bethl

    When your coworker’s are BSSM graduates but are shockingly lazy while arrogant at the same time it is a revelation that character development is sadly missing. I hired one graduate for some carpentry work, only later did I understand how bad the quality was when the work he did fell apart. He was all talk about the anointing on his life to be apostle, while taking my money and failing to complete the work I paid him for. I liked him, but he lacked character something I experienced when working with BSSM students.

    Aside from that, I began to understand the fruit they talk about is fluff and show, the substance of the fruit of the spirit (integrity for starters) is missing. When I heard Heidi Baker, Kris Velotton, and Bill Johnson all speak of “going off the map” and understood they meant the revealed Word of God, the bible I was alarmed. The fact that Heidi said it contemptuously as if it were a joke that the bible adherents wanted scriptural precedence for whatever latest bizarre parlor trick was being foisted on the public, disturbed me

    Its the rockstar gospel. Christian rockstars getting the acclaim and praise of man telling us a gospel we want to hear. A gospel where we made our own dreams our true god, and most of the dreams were centered on getting power, prestige, worldly success, recognition, praise of man. When I began to question this, and return to a focus on biblical teaching and truth, I was told I needed a “Sozo”. Its just another way of saying “you need therapy” and Sozo is sick blend of discarded psychology methods that were proven destructive mixed with visualizing Jesus.

    Leaving Bethel cost me friends, they can’t handle people questioning their teaching. They rejection I experienced was stunning, extreme and brutal. It cost me a job in a round about way too. The experience of living in Redding when the town is so infiltrated by people trying to proselyte Christians into their cult fold is horrible because they are not really loving. They are about the numbers like any marketing scam. The crime rate is surprisingly horrible given the supposed influence by the church. Its an emotional thrill ride but when the gold dust settles, its just living from one emotional event to another and finding little substance for a stable life.

    People get confused when they hear the line “but they raise the dead, people get saved” its good fruit. To that I respond. I was in a terrible cult when I was young called the children of God, we used that same line “we rescue drug addicts, people get saved, we live out the gospel” In reality the REAL fruit of how we lived our lives was corrupt and horrible.

    They talk honor, while dishonoring others. They talk of loving the lost fruit while being bad neighbors and coworkers. They talk signs and wonders while failing to have character and integrity. They talk of honoring God while dismissing the relevance of his Word. Fruit? I’m surrounded by rotting fruit in one of the most diabolical deceptions in America

    • welcome to the blog alaskanative

      so glad you have found your way out of all this mess… its great to hear your testimony – thank you so much for posting… we are beginning to see the same story with the same elements correlating in these exit stories – with people who have no natural connection…

      well you have asked us to PAY ATTENTION – amen to that & it is to the word of God that we must do so… it is our final authority

      thank you for your encouragement – so precious be blessed!

      Z

  6. wow just wow..my church got ‘bethelized’ 3 or 4 years ago..so many of the experiences here mirror my own-even the phrases ‘so drunk in the spirit I cant drive home/glory bombs/more jesus more/come on jesus etc etc
    . our pastor met bj and suddenly its all about the new wine/God’s doing a ‘new thing’ etc (never found out what was wrong with the old thing!)
    soaking-check prophetic art-check
    school of supernatural ministry -check golddust/perfume-check…none of it from God
    rolling on the floor laughing-check treasure seeking-check

    it was like the senior folks got ‘infected’ with bethel
    now they are into Michael maiden and the seven mountains stuff, our pastor is quite friendly with MM and has had him here to speak at a conference locally and I believe MM is coming to the UK again this summer

    so sad- I’ve lost my church family because they went down the road of error

    • Hi Joanna, welcome to the blog,

      I praise God that you are out of this. standing with you that others you have left behind will also begin to see what’s really going on & have the courage to also exit..

      we have quite a bit of info on Michael Maiden here on the blog, you should know though that he was one of the “chosen” ones on stage at Lakeland during Todd Bentley’s commissioning..

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  8. thanks to SBG for bringing this testimony to attention; it completely matches my sentiments & musings at the time of coming out of the bethelized church…

    http://mkayla.wordpress.com/freedom-from-false-spirits-of-revival/

    ellen on September 6, 2011 at 5:20 pm said:

    HI. This is Ellen and I wrote back on August 27. Been reading all the things people are writing. Sounds so spiritual. Why doesn’t anyone say it like it is. The whole charismatic prophetic thing is pure evilness and satanic. I started to step out of this all about 2 years ago. I look back at it all and it is about power,being powerful, demons, fear, control, fasting, praying, money, books, CD’s, music, and experience. Pure delusion. One day I just asked myself…What is the gospel of Jesus Christ? What could I tell my so called “unsaved” friends or anyone. I had no answer. No one ever could or would tell me.

    Years passed of always waiting for a “break through”. Being on the “cutting edge”. Break through to what? Cutting edge of what I now say. It is all an illusion. Like the emperor who wore no clothes. Mind control. Spiritual abuse. Fueled by the belief of lies. I just went to church and meetings and conferences and believed I was cursed if I did not tithe. And never got healed and went into a clinical depression. Constant focus on the devil. All fear based. And I was always not doing enough or lacking faith and thus cursed. Circular reasoning. No way out.

    This whole thing had me convinced that there are demons everywhere and that I was to be walking around in some supernatural realm all the time. I was to serve God and live like this. Wait for my reward in heaven when I die. Things were so bad in my life I figured I would be better off dead then this so called Christianity. Bizarre. Life happens. Everything that happens in my daily life is not some message from God or omen that has some deep spiritual meaning or an attack of the devil. No different than being on drugs or booze and not in reality.

    They told me that in the garden when Adam and Eve disobeyed and ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil that the issue was obedience. And that I had to be in obedience to the pastor and be under his authority or covering so I was safe and protected from the devil. It was twisting scripture as a way for them to get my money, instill fear, make themselves into God. and obey them no matter what. I was just a pawn in their game to benefit themselves while they claim to be leading me. I am covered by the Blood of the Lamb and that is what keeps me covered and delivered. Our God is a bloody God and He satisfied His own laws with the Blood of His Son.

    I think this whole charismatic prophetic thing IS eating of the tree of knowledge of good and evil. Witchcraft. Forbidden by God. I kept on thinking that I don’t have enough faith. Well…what was I supposed to believe and have faith in? What does it mean to have “faith in Jesus”. Everyone had a different “experience”. That’s basically all I ever heard when I went to church. Some evangelist, or speaker, or prophet, or self proclaimed “somebody” showed up and talked about their previous “experience” at some other meeting. Then we lined up, they prayed, we fell over. So what. What were the fruits. I lost my mind and my life is shattered.

    One day I just decided that life could not get any worse than it was and if God was going to send down fire and brimstone and curse or kill me if I quit going there and giving them money and participating in this all…well so be it. Whatever I was supposed to be getting I just could not get it and figured it was better to be dead anyway than live and feel and think the way I was. And I walked out. I am not dead, my mind is coming back, my body is not twitching any more, the tears and fear are going away, the extreme emotional outbursts and anger are going away. And I do not have to worry about my “friend” who are still in it. The Holy Spirit will lead them. I have figured out that the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ is that I am totally incapable of escaping the wrath of God except through the finished work of the Cross of Calvary. End of story. God wants me to believe that by faith

    No more trying to hear from God. He has spoken to us by His Son. And believe the record that has been given of His Son. There are no new apostles. Only the original. They were eye witnesses. These “super apostle” are insane. Egotisical nutcases in need of constant devotion. And money. They have no job skills. The antichrist who has set himself up in the temple of God claiming to be the Christ. The prophets of old said a savior would come and it happened. Jesus said He finished the work His father gave Him to do. My job is to believe in the work He did.

    Thanks. Not even sure why I am writing. I have been duped. At least I am not living the lie. Advice for anyone who has been in this….GET OUT NOW. It is a lie from the pit of hell. Revelation 18:4 “Come out of her…….” God cannot lie. His sheep will hear His voice.

  9. I AM LOOKING FOR THOSE WHO CAN FEEL MY HEART
    During my private devotions in January 2009 the following words came to me.
    At Zazzy’s invitation I post them here and pray that those reading will respond as The Lord
    leads.
    Derek

    I am looking for those who can feel my heart for this nation and its church.
    It is not in my heart to want to bring increasing calamity and destruction but years of increasing unrighteousness not only outsde but especially inside my church have caused me not only pain but a building up of my anger.
    Where are those with spiritual authority who will speak for me against the ungodly laws that
    successive governments have passed. ?
    Where are those who will re-establish the truth of my word and seek to turn peoples hearts to me in repentance and faith. ?
    Instead my church has in large part become a human agency where the reason and wisdom of man and the opinions of man and the standards of the world around prevail.
    My holy prescence and true power have gone .
    How I have longed that my plans for disaster might be averted.
    Who will draw near to me with a new earnestness and zeal and feel my heart and
    understand my purposes in so shaking the nation and its church. ?

    • thank you Derek for sharing this with us,

      I feel this is an authentic prophecy… others would not have known that Derek shared this with me some months ago & I have been praying & weighing it… but please everyone, weigh this word & test it against the scriptures for yourself…

  10. TRUE CHURCH GET READY FOR OPPOSITION FROM WITHIN AS WELL AS WITHOUT

    Last month ( Oct 2013 ) a Christian friend and another believer visiting our county set aside several days to engage in some open air Christian witness together.
    One at a time they stood stood on a small portable box in a busy pedestrianized shopping area not many yards from our city cathedral and preached the gospel.
    About 50 yards further along the road another group were doing ” H.O.T.S ” (Healing on the streets )
    A local C of E vicar with the H.O.T.S group came came down to our friend and remonstrated with him about the message he was preaching. It quickly became clear that he strongly objected that the gospel of salvation and new life in Christ that he was proclaiming included a need to acknowledge one’s sin and repent.
    A young person also with the H.O.T.S ensemble joined in and became so angry that he began to physically attack the visiting preacher. Thankfully at this stage the vicar and his wife restrained the young man and began to walk back to the H.O.T.S group..
    As they were returning the preacher who has a way of attracting listeners called out to his audiance ” can anyone tell me what Jesus came to save us from ? ”
    The vicar shouted back in a loud voice ” people like you ”

    A lot of the streams of “The River” ie the “new christianity” which include healing on demand are marked not only by their wrong and false teaching but also what they are leaving out of their teaching.
    Its a different gospel.
    In Matthew chapter 1 the angel said to Joseph ” you shall call His name Jesus for He shall ave His people from their sins ”
    Derek

    • Derek, I’m blown away by this, but I shouldn’t be! This type of reaction is to be expected but when it happens it is a shock for sure. The guy who attacked your preacher friend is showing very clearly what spirit he has and it ain’t the Holy Spirit. I’m reading through Jeremiah at the moment and I’m finding that so much of it is applicable to the time in which we live. It is full of God’s warnings against the false prophets who prophesy lies basically so the people hear what they want to hear. Well, I believe that happens and more besides – they preach a gospel that is what people want to hear. God was not pleased in the time of Jeremiah and because He does not change, He’s not pleased with the so-called Christians now! We should continue to pray for many to be saved from this false religion (cos that’s what it is!) and that they be truly saved according to the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
      11 “For both prophet and priest are profane;
      Yes, in My house I have found their wickedness,” says the Lord.
      12 “Therefore their way shall be to them
      Like slippery ways;
      In the darkness they shall be driven on
      And fall in them;
      For I will bring disaster on them,
      The year of their punishment,” says the Lord.
      13 “And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria:
      They prophesied by Baal
      And caused My people Israel to err.
      14 Also I have seen a horrible thing in the prophets of Jerusalem:
      They commit adultery and walk in lies;
      They also strengthen the hands of evildoers,
      So that no one turns back from his wickedness.
      All of them are like Sodom to Me,
      And her inhabitants like Gomorrah. Jeremiah 23:11-14 NKJV

  11. Back ‘home’ after a hiatus of some 3 years, it is appalling to witness all the writings and warnings about heresy real-time! With a famine of the Word via an absence of expository preaching and teaching these days (etc.), bible illiteracy has numbed the Lord’s sheep to core truths if only to cajole them into every wind of false doctrine peddled by the New Apostolic Reformation and the Word of Faith Movement, etc. One DISTURBING upcoming event is this: Revival Reformation featuring Che Ahn 27 September 2013, Friday – 28 September 2013, Saturday 7.30pm to 10pm Emmanuel Assembly of God [verify http://www.reva.org.sg/events-revival-reformation/ ]

    Kindly be discerning of the unbiblical teachings and cryptic practices that many have unwittingly embraced as truth whilst Judeo-Christian buzzwords like sin, repentance, fear of the LORD, Judgment Seat of Christ, Great White Throne, are all but rare if not absent from the pulpit ministry let alone the vernacular of today’s postmodern believer. The elders, pastors and leaders of the church of yesteryear and today need give a greater account for this before the Judgment Seat of Christ if not the Great White Throne should they have all been but hireling shepherds. I can put up signs to warn you but no further than the fiery Pit. There will be blood and some will burn!

    Maranatha!
    L.J

    (Mystery Babylon & The Beast of Revelation 13 are original illustrations by Larry James, Copyright 2013)

    Further study: Ezekiel 34 Irresponsible Shepherds; The Book of Jude: The Judgment on False Teachers; Old and New Apostates; Apostates Depraved and Doomed; Apostates Predicted; Revelation 1-3 The Seven Churches (that is the body of believers): The Loveless Church, The Presecuted Church, The Compromising Church, The Corrupt Church, The Dead Church, The Faithful Church, The Lukewarm Church.

    Recommended reading: Kingdom Theology by Albert James Dager, 1992 “This article from Albert James Dager’s 1986 Media Spotlight looks at Kingdom Theology. Although this report is 10 years old, it could have been written yesterday as it relates to what is being taught in the Toronto “Blessing” movement today.” Many of the leaders of the Toronto/Brownsville movement and related “ministries” subscribe to the doctrines of this group. The cursing of other Christians and groups that disagree with them is all part of the doctrines of this group. There are six sections to this paper. The last article contains a list of those who are on the board and the trustees of International Charismatic Bible Ministries (ICBM), one of the main organizations that is preaching this doctrine. [Book available @ Apologetics Coordination Team (ACT)]

    Will the Evangelical Church Sell Out the Gospel for a Dominionist Political Agenda? – A Special Report by Understand the Times and Lighthouse Trails, 8/15/11 This article is not a statement that Christians should not be involved in or concerned about the political state of their countries. Rather, the intention of this article is to exhort believers to use discernment in understanding the times in which we live. It is to show how a present ecumenical, dominionist movement (that is heading toward a one-world religion to “establish the kingdom of God on earth”) is operating and deceiving many Christians. As Christians, we are to be witnesses for Jesus Christ and His Gospel message of salvation to those who believe on Him by faith. But today, many Christians may be on the brink of buying into a plan that will ultimately create a global religion and global government.

    http://www.understandthetimes.org/commentary/c102_dominionist.shtml

    The Roots and Fruits of the New Apostolic Reformation by Bob DeWaay, 6/10/10 This article explores the idea of apostles in the church throughout church history. In it I will show that the restoration/Latter Rain idea that fuels the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) is unbiblical and dangerous to the well-being of Christians who become part of it. First we will review how the early church understood apostles in church history. Then we will examine the Roman Catholic Church’s teaching about apostolic authority. From there we will examine the ideas of a 17th-century mystic given new life in the Latter Rain movement, and now the NAR. http://apprising.org/2010/06/09/the-roots-and-fruits-of-the-new-apostolic-reformation/

    The Question Of Dominion by Sandy Simpson, 2/13/13 I am writing this article as an apologetic against the Third Wave, Latter Rain, Word of Faith and Reformed Theology teachings that the Church is to rise up and take over the systems of government, businesses and every other aspect of life. “See, the problem is, is that Satan has had too much of his way in our society because he has a government! And the only way to overthrow a government is with a government. It won’t happen otherwise. So therefore the government of the church has to get into place in the extended church just like we do have it very well in place, we haven”t reached our goal yet …” (Transcript of C. Peter Wagner, Arise Prophetic Conference, Gateway Church, San Jose, CA, 10-10-2004) Wagner has substituted the “government of the church” for the coming government of Jesus Christ in the Millennial Kingdom. Wagner is “Kingdom Now” while the Bible teaches “Kingdom Come”. http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/thequestionofdominion.html

    “The Great Apostasy!” by David Wilkerson, founding pastor of Times …www.tscpulpitseries.org/english/1980s/ts860507.html‎

    Barna Study concludes: PEOPLE ARE NOT LEAVING THE TRADITIONAL CHURCH BECAUSE THEY HAVE LOST THEIR FAITH, THEY ARE LEAVING TO PROTECT THEIR FAITH..http://reinselspencil.blogspot.com/2011/01/committed-believers-are-leaving.html

    Why Every Calvinist Should Be a Premillennialist – John MacArthur – YouTube

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prosperity_theology‘

    The Believer and Positive Confession – Assemblies of God (USA)

    http://ag.org/top/Beliefs/Position_Papers/pp_downloads/pp_4183_confession.pdf

    Ps. Should all these information seem confusing or divisive, please be mindful that the confusion was caused some 60 years ago when the Assemblies of God in particular compromised on God’s Word and their creedal stance. Many were unwittingly ‘born’ into heresy, let alone inherited sin from Adam. A rude awakening for the disillusioned may well be a blessing than perish like a bllissful idiot by the hand of Benny Hinn, Bill Johnson and Kong Hee (of Singapore) all of who were at one time prodigies or affiliates of The Assemblies of God.

    ——————————————————————————–
    Earlier in the year, this tiny gullible nation had also hosted an NAR-driven conference called Kingdom Invasion 2013 http://www.kingdominvasion.sg/

    That these mindless hordes should know the men behind their medicine, God forbid, for the simple reason that the delusion is God-sent because many loved to have their itching ears tickled. So there they subtly slipped in as the ‘Manifestation of the Hidden Ones’ namely Bill Johnson, Randy Clark and Heidi Baker. Bill Johnson and Randy Clark are also involved in the curriculum listed below.

    CHCP – Christian Healing Certification Program http://globalawakening.com/schools/chcp

    Cost breakdown for Completing the Healing Certification Program

    Physical Healing Track $1,700

    Soul Care Track $1,700*

    Deliverance Track $1,700*

    Total for Whole Program $5,100

    What then seemed harmlessly practical when Sunday school and Christian Education classes slapped their attendees with a $5.00 fee for stationary items, led to an evolution of children-friendly domesticated dogs to being wolves making merchandize of the Lord’s sheep.

    “Whoa Kemosabe, remember ‘em good ol’ days when we made no merchandize to “Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.”? (Matthew 10:8). Remember Him who said ‘These things I have written to you concerning those who [try to] deceive you. But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you…(1 John 2:26, 27)? Kemosabe?

    “Times are a-changin Tonto. Even as we speak, many yearn for a gospel that is relevant, palatable, professional. Charlatans like these sure know how to milk ‘em good than ‘em snake oil salesmen we had back in the Wild West, eh Tonto?”

    “You’ve become too satirical, Kemosabe.”

    satire by L.J

    due to long length post edited by Zazzy: – additional material moved to “the River”

  12. Hi everyone,

    Just found a testimony of someone who escaped Bethel:

    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bethel-Church-and-Christianity/148396958530669?hc_location=timeline

    ‘Talked with a really nice young man today about Bethel.
    He and his bride actually sold everything and moved from Southern California to come to Bethel.
    He told me that God had “spoken to him in dreams” regarding Bethel and their school of supernatural ministry. God told him to, so he did. He told me that God even got him into the school, raised the money and he was set to go. Set to go until everything started falling apart. Now, after never seeing one “sign and wonder” or actual “miracle”, he and his bride are thinking about leaving Bethel because nothing turned out the way they though it would.
    He said they were “duped” into coming to Bethel because he wanted, “more of God” and that at Bethel, “God was really moving there”. He says because those things didn’t happen the way they were told they were, he’s almost agnostic at times. “Did God really tell me to move to Redding and to attend BSSM or not?”. He said that he always hears stories from the leaders about big time miracles and such but he along with countless others never see them and so they become depressed. He is a professing Christian, but his faith has been shaken. How sad. His faith was in these supposed “men of God” and their supposed, “signs and wonders” but yet he himself couldn’t do any of them. He says this is the case with tons of students and people, they sell everything to go to Bethel, they move, quit their jobs everything only to come and be let down. I assured him that there’s a bigger picture here and that he hadn’t been told the whole truth. That’s that the Bible isn’t about you and I doing signs and wonders, it’s about the cross. It’s about the fact that people are going to die in their sins without the shed blood of Christ applied to their account. If a person dies healthy but their sins aren’t forgiven, they will spend an eternity in hell. We talked for a while and am planning on talking more. Bill Johnson, if you read this, repent. Repent of your man-centered, powerless gospel of you and signs and wonders. Turn to the real Jesus, the Savior of Sinners! Shut down that silly school that makes goats worse off goats than they were before they got there.’

    Thank you Lord for helping them come out!

  13. Touched by your testimony Hope & what you said about spending time in the Word & looking to Jesus the author & finisher of our faith is the very best thing we can do in these troubled times. The best thing my husband & I did back in 2008 was to ditch using devotionals & got into the Word for ourselves. So many who put out devotionals these days are peddling a different Jesus & my experience has been that when I look at the Word without a middleman then I become acquainted with Who Jesus really is. I too am in the UK but my experiences of off Charismania happened many years ago. Nothing new under the sun though so I understand the essentials of what the BJ thing is doing. Blessings 🙂

  14. Thank you Hope – you are so welcome to the blog…. standing with you on this journey – you are among friends here…. be blessed – Zazzy x

  15. welcome to one of our newest blog contributors: “Hope” who has asked me to post this on her behalf.

    User name: Hope
    Hi Zazzy, I would just like to let you know how thankful I am to you for creating your blog. It has helped me in two main ways, the first being that I now know that I am not alone in what I have experienced, and the second being, that it has enabled me to give myself the permission to think that I am right in my feelings of grave misgivings about Bill Johnson and his teachings. While living abroad I attended an English speaking international church, which gradually over a period of years came completely under the influence of Bill Johnson and his teachings at Bethel Church, Redding California . At the same time we introduced Healing Rooms, prophetic art and soaking sessions, and celebrating Holy Communion became less and less frequent, which really alarmed me.

    A team came from the US to train us in running a healing room, and it was
    during this time a young teacher made the comment “God is in a good mood”. I have since read in other blogs, that this awful expression is quite often bandied about. As I was employed by the church at this time, and was frequently at meetings to open and lock up the building, I did sometimes stay and participate in healing room sessions, but to be truthful my heart was not really in it, and I felt like I was a square peg forcing myself into a round hole. I got more and more miserable and troubled and eventually stopped attending. It has taken me a long time to get over this time, I felt hurt and angry that I had lost my spiritual home because the leaders has chosen to go down a path that I did not want to walk down. It is not that I think that in anyway I am a better Christian than them, far, far from it, it is just that I wasn’t at
    peace about the direction they were taking.

    By reading your blog it has enabled me to stop wavering around in my mind as to whether I was right and they were wrong. I usually assume that other people know far better than me, and to think that “big name” teachers would deliberately set out to teach something that was false, seemed too shocking to contemplate. However I have decided that they are misguided at the very least, and now I have settled this in my mind I am able to let it go and begin to heal. With God’s help I will spend more time in his word, and will look to Jesus as the author and finisher of our faith Heb:12 v2 Now that I am back in the UK, it has been a real sorrow to me to see from church webpages how much of a foothold Bill Johnson has got in UK churches. I am filled with dismay as to how teenagers and young children
    will be taught the truth in the current climate. I have heard of churches where they are teaching very young children to prophesy, which seems to me, fraught with danger, and then there is the questionable activity of treasure hunting, which I also question. At present I seem to alternate between being really sad, or fuming with anger.

    As I am not really “into” facebook, twitter, chat rooms or avatars, I have asked Zazzy if she will kindly cut and paste this comment into her comments page because I DO like her website and blogs which are extremely interesting and informative and thank her for it. God bless and keep you safe.

  16. Thanks for your very supportive and kind words. And please do pray for us, it would mean a lot. Thanks for this blog you have set up. Testimony is SO powerful
    They overcame him (satan) by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimony
    The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy

    I have realised that prophecy is definately NOT about portals, gates, territories, strategies, alignments, blah blah blah……it is really direct and simple, REPENT and RETURN TO GOD. I think every genuine prophetic utterance is distilled into those 2 basic principles, puts the focus AWAY from man and TOWARDS God Himself. He will ALWAYS have an ear for the one who is broken, humbled, finished, contrite. Lets face it even the great Elijah came to this low but exciting place “take my life Lord I AM NO BETTER THAN MY ANCESTORS”!! HE had a revelation of adamic original sin, depravity etc

    Its no longer “I” that live but Christ that lives in me
    For “you” died and your life is now hidden with Christ in God

    I mean we used to queue up with a tape recorder to “get” the latest from heaven regarding “ME” from God’s man (or more often woman) of the hour. It is a glorious revelation indeed that it is in seeking and pursuing HIM that I get to discern what is my true identity and purpose as a new creation, that it is blessed to be a dead man….
    Shalom Jonathan

  17. Pingback: thrilling testimony found here | Burned by Bethel

  18. I should point out that I “became a Christian” (whatever that loosely applied term means) in November 1987. From day 1 I had a zeal for more of God, and for revival. I read sermons of Murray M’Cheyene, George Whitlfield and other similar ministers. Their style and content appealed strongly, (because it chimed with my innate distrust of marxism and humanism). This was the era when the classic pentecostal fellowships were unfortunately starting to drop their Biblical standards and adopt “relevant” modern methodologies, an emphasis on “youth” “worship” etc.

    From the late 80’s/mid 2000’s I lived in the north east of England. I was spiritually hungry-but Biblically illiterate. I had an unhealthy attitude to Church leadership, and a desire for spiritual power (ie a recipe for disaster, an accident waiting to happen)The full extent of my sinful pride hadnt yet been revealed to me… Anyway, in that location, at that time, not surprisingly in my seeking (foolishly after man, and not GOD) I came into contact with several high profile and influential NAR people. They seemed to be everywhere even then on the lucrative conference scene, and were influential and gaining credibility, as if their ministry was what God and Britain was waiting for to get us out of the spiritual doldrums. I engaged in prophetic training, activation, impartation days, revival conferences-all the talk about “the river” etc was current back then (sorry terrible pun), and yet sadly, frustratingly, I never knew any better, seeing as there were few if any hellfire turn or burn type preachers ministering to get me on the road to repentance and submission to the Lordship of Christ….

    Check Lamentations 2:14
    The visions of your prophets were false and worthless
    They did not expose your sin to ward off your captivity
    The oracles they gave you were false and worthless

    To my shame I had received so called “impartation” from various high profile world renowned “prophetesses”. Of course this was flattering and appealed to my pride, yet the spirit thus imparted I now believe contributed to or exacerbated all manner of preexisting difficulties:-spiritual blindness, encouragement to be immersed in prideful works of the flesh, endless engagement with darkness in warfare strategies, warfare intercession, you know the sort of thing….that you had to DO something to activate God…leading to persistent frustration, a critical spirit, judgementalism, alternating between prayerlessness and bouts of extreme intercessory activity, inability to receive Gods word, more focus on me than on Jesus etc etc.

    Mid 2000’s I moved south to rural north Suffolk-unwittingly to a location almost literally next door to another NAR hotspot-which I regrettably became involved with for approx 2 years. Again, the staple “new thing”, cultural realignments, controlling tendencies, personality cultish, obsessive “numerology”, seasons for this that and the other, strategic prayer, warfare warring-warring-warring……..looking back I now realise that it was a false occultic spirit that led the way (or, more accurately, caused me to be driven). Once you open yourself up as I did to that NAR dominionist spirit of false prophecy, it will follow you around…But I praise and love God that in his mercy he gently but firmly began to really open my eyes to the true state of affairs. If your heart is after His ways, He will speak, it just takes us to swallow our pride and listen. I think it was George Whitfield that said “our accursed pride must be brought low”…

    Just over a year ago I moved even further south to Dorset, ostensibly to work in an IHOP affiliated house of prayer. I was so puffed up and dismissive of “ordinary believers”….Anyway, this was when the B Johnson connection really became apparent, many church groups here have seemingly embraced its methods and its wrong spirit, a tremendous focus on “manifestations” the dust, oil, feathers, special words, declaration, the whole thing. And at the expense of the classic Biblical way of salvation in Christ Jesus and no one else. Does ANYONE still do that?Then all of a sudden, quite unexpectedly, literally every time I travelled to a prayer “set” I would arrive all fired up (LOL) only to be informed the event was postponed due to illness or injury or other reasons. This happened A LOT, and so I asked why Lord? (My humility was being developed in other ways alongside all this IHOP nonsense, in my arrogance I attempted to invade a perfectly respectable local Church fellowship with my intercessory zeal, and my lack of progress was what begun the real breaking humbling process….)

    Even in recent weeks and days, I realise how close I came to losing everything, my eternal soul, peace, joy, missed out on many of Gods blessings, because out of a lethal comination of ignorance, pride and delusional selfish ambition, I opened up myself (and my family) to a spirit of false prophecy. Praise God we are free, the ramifications have hit home. We broke every covenant/prayer that we ever uttered, renounced every tie, every impartation that occured, thanked the lord for blood cleansing, mercy and forgiveness for our foolishness, thanked Him for restoration and correct Biblical alignment with Jesus and with Heaven. We depend on Him alone….He is Lord
    Shalom, J

    • Praise God my anonymous friend – that HE has revealed this deep set error to you & that you have had your eyes opened… Thank you for your testimony…it is a powerful account. when you said:

      Once you open yourself up as I did to that NAR dominionist spirit of false prophecy, it will follow you around…

      I think this is an accurate perception…because it is oppression, bondage & witchcraft at its root – & it doesn’t let go easy. But we have a stronger risen saviour who has broken every chain – & purchased us at a higher cost – Hallelujah!

      I sense you are newly out of this & so please do keep in touch for encouragement & support – we will be praying for you – drop us a private email if you need to.. a very warm welcome to the blog

      Zazz

    • Update LOL it was William Chalmers Burns who said that “our accursed pride must be brought low”, not George Whitfield (although both excellent men of God who preached an uncompromising full gospel)….I re read it just the other day and remebered this blog!!

      It was fascinating to re read my testimony of a year ago. God in His mercy and eternal goodness, started something in me at that time, and it continues, Praise His name!
      Like many who have read this blog, I have been shocked and amazed at the speed and ferocity with which a counterfeit move has developed in recent years. Its like a blazing inferno, but one that originates with a false spirit. Its as if the churches and fellowships were dry and barren, and a spark of false fire ignited them, and the one element that acts as the accelerant of the conflagration is PRIDE and DISOBEDIENCE.
      In recent days I was wondering how did Moses, the insecure, handicapped, spoilt, conceited, bad tempered murderer end up being described in Scripture as “the meekest (most humble) man in the whole earth”?
      I believe that the answer was, and still is, that he learned how to be totally completely open and honest with God. Moses’ sudden and dramatic fall from his privelidged position in the “royal” house propelled him into the unknown desert wilderness, which is where he began to fellowship with God, and learned to do exactly as God told him to do, learned to look to God on ocasions when his authority was being challenged…! He learned to trust and rely entirely on God, largely because there was no one else to turn to…
      I love Lamentations 2:14
      “The visions of your prophets were false and worthless
      They did not expose your sin to ward off your captivity
      The oracles they gave you were false and misleading”
      A “gospel” that denies that sin, or that hell is real; one that tells us that all men are universally saved anyway, that all or any path to “god” is valid, is no gospel at all. It is a narrow path that leads to life, a broad road leads to destruction…
      Praise the Lord my family and I are now residing back in East Anglia, and we are attending a sound Bible-believing church which has a man of God as its pastor, along with Godly elders. I am pleased and honoured to submit to their teaching and sound counsel!!
      Be blessed saints, Shalom, Jonathan

  19. I really do think there is an agenda too Zazzy . I have done research and its no coincidence that a lot of these false teachers seem to be all affiliated in some way they are joining together and trying to get footholds in our church’s making way for foreign and mystical teaching.

    The consequences….
    The Word of God watered down so it doesn’t offend.
    The Word of God taken out of context, corrupted, twisted to fit into mans own views & ideas.
    Big on teaching Prosperity and blessing, suffering for Christ sake is never mentioned.
    Being led by the Holy spirit is now more about Sensationalism and wanting spiritual highs.
    Music seems to be the most important thing in the church,very showy. Song lyrics focused on ‘self’. Songs repetitive and almost chant like.
    Business like, success of the church seems to be measured by big jazzy building and bums on seats.

    Sadly I have witnessed the above things more and more in our church’s in the Uk.
    Man becomes the focus and not Christ.

    Where is this false movement heading ????

    The joining together of faiths is part of Satan’s plan, a big deception as the Bible tells us and warns us this will happen.
    This deception is appealing to the flesh, it is accepting of all faiths (except the true bride of Christ) and teaches that there is many ways to God. Everything you do is ‘hunky dory’ as long as you ‘love’ and are’ positive’ and don’t question authority.
    A ‘One world faith’ and at the head the antichrist, the Bible refers to as the’ Beast’.
    The beast will ‘wow’ people with signs and wonders.(Revelation 13 v1-9) He will bring a false peace and false sense of security for a time.
    There will be no fear of God, no conviction of sin, no repentance, those who do fear God will be despised and rejected and not accepted at all. (Rev 13 V7)

    God has allowed this for his purposes, he knows, its written in his word.
    Satan has already been conquered.
    God is calling us to have ears that hear (Revelation 1 V 1-3) and for his true bride to be alert and ready for his return.

    Matthew 7 v13
    Enter through the narrow gate. for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.

    • the N.A.R. movement is about 1% of the population (3 million people follow N.A.R.) in a country of 350 million. It’s “the biggest movement you’ve never heard of” HUGE. but yet stays mostly on the “fringe”s.

      Also, most of their recruitment (they do a small percent of outreach – they make an attempt at evangelism) is people coming from other churches to Bethel Church, Redding , CA, which is interesting.

  20. Daily M,

    I can relate very much so to your comment, “The Bible says by their fruits you will know them. I’m not going to go into detail on here but believe me when i say the fruits were rotten to the core!.”

    If I had not been a Christian for a long, long time before I attended Bethel, I am not sure how this would have steamrolled my faith. Luckily, I have a been a Christian for a long time before Bethel.

    Many times, I would rationalize the leaders behavior.

    My previous pastor in Chicago, Steve Nicholson, would say “that’s always the way it is in ministry – there are the ‘good apples’ and the bad apples” (so to speak) a.k.a., I thought I kept interacting with the bad apples (those in leadership)

    But then,

  21. Hi, I am American actually (I live in Redding) I actually moved here – specifically for Bethel church (also because I really hated where I was living before and Redding seemed so much better, at the time)

    I was talking to a young man, age 32, who works in the City Hall. He got saved about 4 years ago (not at Bethel) and then sometimes went to Bethel, but later decided (for many reasons) that the movement was not “of the Lord” and does not have anything to do with Bethel church. Mostly cites Todd Bentley – did Jesus ever use violence to heal people? etc. But two questions he asked me kind of burned in my mind 1) What do you think they’re doing up there (if the movement is not “of the Lord”) and 2) What appealed to you to first start going?

    Also, he had a very strange interaction with Bill Johnson, many years before he got saved, that I am still “processing” through. does not paint Bill in a very positive light. (Not that any Christian leader is *perfect*)

  22. Daily m:

    Thank you for sharing this precious testimony here with us… It is so good to know that God is faithful & true to all those – especially those – who are willing to seek & stand for truth – His truth – even when the cost is very high to us personally…

    you also stated:
    Our pastor came back telling us we had to all get with the ‘new thing’ and was all excited about it. The pastor said that he ‘saw’ that our church in the UK would be a facilitator and centre of teaching. He talked about ‘old wells’ being reopened get with the new thing and that we had to get on the flight path otherwise we would be missed out.

    I want to share that this is the exact same “message” (not anywhere near Yorkshire) we were receiving too from those who had been out to Bethel & brought back what they termed as “fire” or a “fresh revelation”

    there is an agenda afoot here to take the UK by storm…. all arranged by those at the very “top” of this movement… they would proclaim that this is unity & that the Holy Spirit is speaking the very same things to different people- which would add weight & validity to it in their understandings…

    BUT…. I sincerely do not believe that it is the Holy spirit promoting these things… His top priority is making Jesus known…. & ensuring he is lifted on high…. not cooking up dominionist strategies- that cannot be weighted in the counsel of scripture.-

    Thank you so very much for praying for my family & I & the support you have given the blog… I appreciate that very much

  23. Thank you Zazzy for your blog. I have found it very helpful and have been able to direct friends to this sight. I am continuing to pray for you your family and would like to thank you for support and prayers.
    I have already posted my story on M’kaylas korner but would like to also post it on here too as its UK based.

    We came out of our previous church in UK, North Yorkshire, over 4 years ago.
    Our church pastor at the time went to the States to attend conferences at The Airport church and then onto Bethel. Our pastor came back telling us we had to all get with the ‘new thing’ and was all excited about it. The pastor said that he ‘saw’ that our church in the UK would be a facilitator and centre of teaching. He talked about ‘old wells’ being reopened get with the new thing and that we had to get on the flight path otherwise we would be missed out.

    The pastor went back to the States many times attending more and more conferences he also went to many retreats. One Sunday I remember the pastor talking about a retreat he had recently been on. It had been recommended to him by someone he had met at a conference in America and was told that this is where he should go to get clear guidance for the direction of the church. The pastor told us that he had really encountered God and that he had been given direction for the church even though he had realised while there that the retreat was for new age followers to meditate and seek enlightenment. (sigh)
    Week by week the teaching in the church started to change, we started having meetings of just sitting or lying on the floor soaking in ‘Gods presence’. Little or no bible teaching, no gospel message given & no call for repentance. If the bible was opened it was the same verses over and over again.
    Declarations became a big thing in our church, they were put on a big screen for people to read and speak out together as a congregation. The Declarations were all about blessings and all centred on ‘self’.
    The pastor then invited many guest speakers from the states and hired big expensive venues to house the event along with lots of advertising funded by the church savings/ offerings.
    The guest speakers that came to our church were always talking about the ‘supernatural the ‘anointing’, ‘Third heaven’, ‘ The secret place’. They talked mostly about their supernatural experiences and how spiritual and connected they were with God.
    They liked to ‘wow’ the congregation with there talk of angels feathers, gold dust and gold fillings, again no gospel message no call for repentance, however they did have a lot to say about money, no surprise there!
    I was in the music team at the time and before these conferences started ( hanging around after rehearsals) I saw a very different side to these preachers that were idolised by many in the church and by there own admission,in touch with God and ‘anointed’.
    The Bible says by their fruits you will know them. I’m not going to go into detail on here but believe me when i say the fruits were rotten to the core!.
    One of the many preachers we had at the conference hosted by our church was Todd Bentley. . When one of the younger members of the music team asked TB how he had spent the day he said he been from pub to pub drinking Black sheep Beer, and visiting and praying at a grave. His buzz word was’ fire’ during the meeting he said it a lot !!!!

    At another conference that our church had put on our pastor just lay on the floor laughing, it was quite disturbing and i will say it yet again, no gospel message whatsoever.

    Alot of other strange things happened in our previous church, some of the congregation said they had gold dust on their face and angels appearing in the meeting. (i never saw any by the way).
    In one of the meetings some of the people in the church were hunting on the floor for diamonds, Crazy I know!
    Then after Todd Bentley was no longer the flavor of the month Bill Johnson came onto the scene and his teaching was all the rage in our church, our pastor even employed some students from the Bethel church on BJs advise.
    Bill Johnson was different to the others that had previously come to speak before, he spoke intelligently and spoke some elements of truth but mixed in a whole lot of error too.

    ** Satan tells us nine truths to get us to believe that one lie- Quote by CS Lewis
    (I’m not advocating CS Lewis, by the way but I do agree with his quote )

    My Husband and i would not have any peace during church meetings and warning bells did ring loudly. We wondered if we were the only ones in the church who was concerned with the things been taught and why wasn’t anybody questioning? .
    I felt confused and was worried that I might come across as a negative person if I questioned, and also at times I thought that i might be wrong and not in the will of God.

    It did however became clear when I got stuck in the Bible, I prayed to God to give me understanding about what was happening in the church and he did answer me through the truth in his word by his grace and mercy.
    My husband and I came out of this church and repented of ever being a part of this false teaching, nothing about it was of God- a whitewash ( talked about in Ezekiel).
    We are going to another church now which at the moment is sound, I am praying that it will stay that way.
    I feel that i should also say that please don’t let bad experiences stop you from moving on and continue to fight the good fight and reach the lost, walk with God daily, clinging to him for dear life.
    Warn people ‘Yes’ I believe that’s what God wants us to do, but do so carefully always in Love and always cover with prayer.
    Pray for our current pastors, leaders, elders, there is some good ones out there still and its a really tough job, I know as I was a Pastors kid for years, they come under attack if they are walking right! .

    .
    John 8 v32 And you shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free.

    Ezekiel 12- Again a message came to me from the Lord- son of man, you live among the rebels who have eyes but refuse to see. They have ears but refuse to hear.

    Romans12:2
    Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, then you will be able to test and approve what Gods will for you which is good pleasing and perfect.

    1 Peter 4.7 The end of all things is near. Therefore be clear minded and self-controlled so that you can pray.

  24. Im so glad you are demonstrating a strong faith in Jesus – he is who he said he was… we dont need anything to do with doctrines of demons… good to see you sharing info with your church & your friends.. welcome to the blog Zazzy

  25. My story….if I can call it that: I had no idea about all those people in America: Bill Johnson and all the lot….all I ever knew was some of Jesus Culture’s songs…..and yes, I read on the internet they were a Cult but ignored it.
    Well, someone I know got involved with London School of Supernatural Ministry and this is how it all started.
    I started searching more about them and ended up freaked out by all the craziness around it!!
    I was asking myself: How is possible for a Christian to be fooled like that?? I couldn’t comprehend that……thank God I had great teaching in my Church and there was no-nonsense allowed at all!!
    But still…how are they being deceived so badly??
    I was watching an interview with Chris Quilala (from Jesus Culture) and all the rubish he was talking about…unbelievable!!
    It is all about feelings…..do they know what it means ‘to be born again’?
    Do they know that God will say to them: Depart from me, for I never knew you!
    And they will say: didn’t we prophesied in Your name, didn’t we heal sick people in Your name??
    Yes, in His name but not with Him…….NOT WITH HIM!!
    May God have mercy on us, to stay in His hands, and may He have mercy on those who walk blindly and deceive others too.
    There are some people in my Church who went to America, to Bethel Church and to IHOP.
    We are preparing information for our Church leaders and friends as they don’t know much about it.

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