Fire Tunnels


    Two lines of people stand opposite each other – to form a Tunnel.    Everybody else passes through the middle to have prayer/ an impartation of the spirit
 

 

From what I have seen  myself  the first couple of times we did them they were something & nothing…  I didnt have any problem with it at first  because it felt like just praying for people…  but it is actually more than that… firetunnels started at Bethel as a deliberate intention in order to spread the “impartation”  the first thing to notice  that  from a scripture basis  when FIRE is talked about in terms of God’s fire – it is always to do with Gods judgement…   so red flag 1… do we see  anyone coming out of these fire tunnels  in a heavily convicted of sin- repentative state?
 

 

There is hypersuggestability:   red flag 2- after we had done firetunnels a couple of times  some people started manifesting in strange ways  other people  joined in thinking that this was the expected way to behave – in other words  they began to believe that it was the physical sensations & experiences that they were having  were the purpose of going in a firetunnel..   – this only increased in intensity the more times it was done
 

 

Red flag 3  people would have this wild encounter, amazing experience – touch of God etc…  in the meeting & then go back to being their usual sinful, depressed, ill selves.-   it did nothing therefore it terms of providing salvation, healing or deliverance…
 

 

Additionally, at our new church   to our dissapointment – they had a visiting speaker  who had been to Bethel… this man decided to do a firetunnel…  he introduced it by saying that in the UK  we dont call them “firetunnels”  any more-  they have been renamed as “prayertunnels”  to make it more palatable to people who are more “religious” in their outlook… (He actually said that from the front)
 

 

So  here we have a not very well thought out agenda to push something on to people who are questioning this, labelling them as “religious”  which is inferred in the negative —   why???  if all of this is of God & administered in a Godly ordered way in our corporate meeting….  where’s the problem…?
 

 

 

The  truth is that people leading this, feel a check in their spirit & push through with it anyhow.    on this occasion.. this minster of the firetunnel ( lets face it you are only a minster of the Gospel of Jesus – if you preach/teach it)   instructed  the other leaders in the room  to come & form the 2 lines of the tunnel..  they were not given the option to opt out…  this is manipulation!!!  if they had disagreed or felt in their own spirit  that they should not participate in it – to refuse  looks like undermining of the one in charge of the meeting – very publically…  so of course once the leaders are participating the whole room feels then like they must also utilise it – justified with  well my leaders who I love & trust & know  dont seem to be having a problem with it – so I will go with it…  ITS A SET UP!!!
 

 

So  manipulation  & captivity  are the key spiritual players in this scenario-   instead of bringing freedom & life…

35 thoughts on “Fire Tunnels

    • Hi Aimee yes its a set up because of you go through this your are opening yourself up to receive whatever spirit May be passed on to you.. these people believe I’m transferable anointing a which means basically when you are physically touched there is a strong likelihood that you’ll begin to manifest I’m some way. Jerky movents or involuntary shouting something like that… Which they’ll take as proof of the spirit of God at work in you. ( not biblical). The spirit of God is demonstrates in your life by the fruit of the spirit. Galations 5 & 6 explains this. & if you Font participate. You choose to stay in your seat. You are identified as not being in unity, someone who needs ‘ help/ encouragement’. I’m order to make you comply with it you’ve opened yourself up be manipulated, pressured & controlled.

  1. Pingback: The New Apostolic Reformation – Part Three: The Influence of Bethel Church in Redding, CA | Sara Boyd

  2. Acts 8:15-19
    Who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

    Acts 19:6 NKJV
    And when Paul had laid hands on them, the Holy Spirit came upon them, and they spoke with tongues and prophesied. It was an act to impart or stir up gifts of God.

    2 Tim 1:6 NKJV
    Therefore I remind you to stir up the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands. It was an act to set apart for ministry.

    Acts 13:2-3 NKJV
    The Holy Spirit said, “Now separate to Me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them.” Then, having fasted and prayed, and laid hands on them, they sent them away. It was an act to impart healing.

    Mark 16:18 NKJV
    …they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

    Laying on of hands in the New Testament was an act to impart healing.

    Mark 16:18 NKJV
    …they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.”

  3. FIRE in the new testament – ‘ i shall baptise YOU with the Holy Spirit AND with FIRE’ doesnt sound like judgement to me? Lets put it all in the proper place guys. it is actually biblical to impart Holy Spirit via laying on of hands. READ your bible

    • Except for the fact that the Holy Spirit is a person & cannot then be transferred or wafted onto people like some energy divine power source… yes the laying on of hands is biblical.. but i lost count of the times in my bethelized church whereby individuals would lay on hands & impart a spirit of “freedom’ or “glory” or “intoxication” or any other manner of spiritual thing… see Ive seen with my own eyes how it creeps in

    • A good response. There are some huge assumptions being made by the critics, eg. no change in the people after fire tunnels. How can this be proved from the outside. Surely there will be a full spectrum of results often a deep work started that is a process and not a instant miracle. What I have noticed is that people who are “uptight religious types” are either released into deep peace from encountering God OR become even more suspicious and “in need to be in control- but legalistic only trusting what they can fully explain. A counterfeit means a copy of the original from God so discernment, not fear, is required. People like Zaggy (if they are wrong)
      are in danger of Grieving the Holy Spirit so he needs to be careful not to also lead people astray and so offend God

      • Thanks Al, of course I don’t want to grieve the holy spirit. We must absolutely have discernment.. but how does that work in practical terms. ?? The thing is that I’m of the opinion that if a Godly person is feeling uncomfortable about engaging in a ” spiritual” practice this is indeed the ” check in the spirit” they are experiencing. Now the problem we have here is that inthe group environment where people are pretty much ” ordered” to participate – with the oftentimes heavily loaded implication that if you don’t you aren’t “spiritual enough”/ not in renewal/ not jumping in the river/ not in unity – ( whichever phraseology is used) – where is there the time or space to be actively discerning? To my mind & experience peer pressure & group think/ expectations take over.

        You should know that in my bethelised environment that participating in a firetunnel was absolutely deliberately used to determine individuals complicitness with the leadership & those that actively chose not to go through it were deliberately targeted as ” being in fear” & therefore self identified themselves to being “worked on” by the leaders. Godly or spiritually abusive coercion? You decide…

        How then can this ever ever be the Holy Spirit at work… He is a gentleman not a coercive cult leader. Furthermore – how can this scenario even exist in a Godly – surrendered – leadership team none were open to the challenge of the check in the spirit non participation indicates. People were just written off as anti unity…. How then does an individual even bring a challenge of conviction that things are not right. ? They can’t… Because fear, domination. Manipulation & control abound… & that’s how when we open open our eyes to see it we can tell or discern the truth of what’s really going on…
        & is it a biblical practice..? . Nope!!!

    • S.McClelland ~

      If you read the rest of that passage, it becomes clear that the fire John the Baptist is talking about is that of God’s judgment:

      “I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
      Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.” ~ Matt 3:11-12

      You see, those who go into the flames are the ones whom Jesus is purging, while fanning the flames to get ever hotter. The wheat (born again believers) are safe in the garner. The chaff (conjugate with “tares,” i.e. unrepentant sinners) are going to be burnt up in unquenchable fire. That is the fire of hell from which the “smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.” (Rev 14:11)

      So Jesus will be baptizing with the Holy Ghost & with fire, but no human will receive both of these baptisms. Those who are baptized with the Holy Ghost will avoid the baptism of fire; those who refuse to believe upon Jesus will receive the baptism of fire: eternal hell.

    • How about this scripture?
      1 Timothy 5:22 NIV
      [22] Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure.

      What is being imparted from one to another through this practice. I have heard well known leaders saying they won’t let just anyone lay hands on them because of this.

      • Yes, this is the scripture that I was actually going to post on here as well. I don’t even involve only a couple people that I know their personal walk to pray for me. I never enter into prayer chains and I don’t ask many people to pray for me because I don’t know what prayers they offer up. It’s wisdom. If the Lord lays someone on my heart for me to open up to I will at that time open up about my need to them…but ultimately I trust that God hears me and knows my need before I even have need of it. But as we lay hands on people hastily we can end up opening ourselves up to those peoples familiar sins.

  4. Ended up on this site by doing some research on Bethel and Fire Tunnels
    Here’s the story…sorry it’s a bit long…I just visited my brother in Redding this week. For about a year and a half he’s been telling me about this amazing church called Bethel. I was going to visit on Easter this year, but had a check in my heart. This was the first time I did a little research on Bethel & watched one of Bill’s sermons. Without any preconceptions, I felt my heart recoil. The sermon was sappy and full of ego. It felt more like a Tony Robins motivational speech than a sermon. In no way did it point to Jesus, the Bible, or God. It was all about gifts, healings, etc. But I thought, “maybe it was just that weeks topic…” But I couldn’t deny the sick feeling in my heart.
    Well we visited on Friday night last week. I brought my two middle school age children, who I am very thankful have a strong foundation in their relationship with Jesus. When we drove in and saw the prayer room with a pyramid on top, that was a bit of a red flag. (I won’t elaborate on personal research and my own thoughts about this, I’ll just say it was unsettling.) When walking into “worship” it was so loud that my ears were ringing. My daughter was trying to be polite, but ended up plugging her ears. My sis-in-law said, “let’s sit in the front so we can dance!” I was like, “nope, I’m good back here.”
    The experience; cameras everywhere, people jumping, jerking, laughing, yelling. Whatever floats your boat is cool – I love to raise my hands in worship, but it felt so far from worship and so much more egocentric. The only thing that kept coming to mind was the girl from Acts 16:16-18. I tried to pray, but there was an incredible block. So I said, “Lord, I know you are with me, protect me and watch over my children in this place.” I knew there were a lot of spirits there.
    I had been told by my sis-in-law that people will come up and lay hands on you and pray for you or speak prophetic words, or in tongues…but long story short – I have been a victim of a genuine curse from a lady at a church who spoke a “blessing” in tongues over me before – never again will I let someone, let alone a random stranger, pray something foreign over me. So I prayed for protection because that is what I felt compelled to do.
    I love the music from Jesus culture and often play it at home, along with Hillsong…I’ve always loved the lyrics and worship – I play the songs on my guitar and sing – not to perform, just by myself I’ll sing to God. But here in the presence of Jesus culture…everything felt empty and fake. It bummed me out because I love the music so much.
    Anyway, the sermon was by a dude name Chad I think. Here’s what I got out of it. Chad likes to surf, surfing makes Chad happy, do what makes you happy. Did I mention Chad likes to surf…and long board…and run…and bike….? I learned a lot about Chad, like that annoying guy at the ski resort parking lot that has all the latest and best gear and is the best skier in the world and everyone should know how great he is….that’s how I felt about Chad. Not A WORD was mentioned about the Word, or Jesus, or God. At the end of the sermon he did a whole fortune telling routine with a couple people in the audience and told some stories about more fortune telling “word of knowledge” stuff. Anyway – my daughter asked several times during the service to leave that she felt sick in her heart, my son whispered to me near the end of service that something in his heart felt empty and sensed evil. I didn’t want to offend my brother, so we stuck it out, but my heart was very disturbed. Looking back I should have taken my kids and me out of there. Now – please understand, I said NOTHING to my kids. I didn’t want them to know what I was feeling because I really wanted to see if they would pick up on it. I was so proud of their discernment. We’ve had some deep conversations since, but mostly how important our relationship is with God and His Son, Jesus.
    Anyway – to top things off at the end of service they did the fire tunnel. At that point I knew it was time to go. My sis said “C’mon! This is so awesome!” I lied, “We all have to go to the bathroom.” And I got up took the kiddos and …went in the bathroom, but never went. My kids would never NEVER let get away with lying to another adult. They would totally call me out, but as we walked out of there, my son said, “Thank you mom for getting us out of there.”
    So anyway – since my experience at Bethel, I have been digging in a little deeper into what this church is all about, and from what I’m finding is that it is a church of works and miracles, but not really a church where the Holy Spirit is a gentleman, or the Word of God is preached. I used to be a yoga teacher in my “former life”, and I understand a little about Kundalini and Chakras, There was a lot of Kundalini manifestations….trust me boys and girls, the Kundalini is a real spirit, very tangible and powerful in manifestation, but it is not from God.
    My intention is not to judge anyone from Bethel. I know my bro and sis have a heart for the Lord and they really truly love the Jesus. I know there are people there who truly have a heart for God. I’m just sharing my personal experience. Pray for discernment, prayer for wisdom, keep your eyes on Jesus and not just manifestations and miracles. Yeshua is wisdom and the He gives to any who seek and ask. …. Job 28, Proverbs 4, James 1:5.
    God bless!

    • Thank You so very much for your transparent comment. This has bothered me as I have now seen this in three church settings. The first time, I was visiting a church I use to attend regularly, for a women’s conference. I respect and trust the discernment of this Prophetic Pastor Momma, as the Lord used her as a mighty instrument to speak into my life, while going through a time of marital separation and awaiting our MARRIAGE RESTORATION (which did come after a “supposed divorce” and a 21-month wilderness journey, and as God would have it, we later found out the attorney never filed the final judgment, therefore the divorce was rescinded). Thank You Jesus!!! Anyhow, My daughter of 23 yrs was with me. When we were explained what was about to happen, we were told that there was a team that had been praying all weekend and that they would be laying hands on us and pray over us as we moved through the tunnel. So my daughter and I got up to stand in line and thankfully the line was realllly long. After about 45 mins or so into waiting (mind you this was after an hour and a half evening service), I looked at my daughter and asked her if she was really wanting to go through the line. I was getting tired, but more importantly I just wasn’t getting a God check in my spirit. She turns to me and says, “Mom, I’m so glad you said that, because I didn’t want to disappoint you and ask to leave, I didn’t get a check to do this FIRE TUNNEL thing.” Like mentioned above by another, there is a sense of pressure to oblige.

      The next time I was at a Prophetic Conference in Jan ’16, being held by some Prophet’s I truly admire and receive from on a regular basis and support. One of the people with them, I did not know from before this event, called for a FIRE TUNNEL. I looked over at my husband and he says, “I’m not with this, are you ready to go?” Once we got in the car I told him I was grateful he spoke up. It was then that he told me he knew instantly that Holy Spirit was nudging him not to participate.

      The last time I saw this was on an online church healing service with a minister of a very large platform. Again, someone I have received from teaching wise. But as I watched the people go through the line, it just all seemed to be so put on, not real and all with the same exact level of entry as exit. Meaning they all responded in the exact same way.

      Ironically, every time I ask someone to please give me a scriptural basis to this FIRE TUNNEL practice, none can point me to a scripture. But when you said Kundalini and Chakras my spirit man was saddened.

      Thanks again for the comment. Shalom to all!

      • wow I believie. I have a friend who was talking about fire tunnels this summer on a cross country trip. I asked her about what that meant and I had a check just in our conversation. She wanted me to meet a family member as we traveled across the states to meet up and go to her church to participate in this. I told her that I had to reroute our trip and I wasn’t able to go there. I didn’t want to get involved.

  5. This is just another false teaching like you said. And many people are being led astray because of pagan type teachings such as the ” fire-tunnel”. To put it plainly this is unholy teachings for those who want ears tickled.

    God plainly said to be holy as He is holy. And repent from our sins and He is faithful and just to forgive them.

  6. Yes, He is our Father and wants to impart joy. But the very being of Holy Spirit is self-control. When I saw my first fire tunnel here in South Africa, I was appalled and immediately alarmed. People describe their experiences as “UNCONTROLLABLE laughter”, “UNCONTROLLABLE rolling around”…..

    Look at those videos, Father is a gentleman, He respects us!…. I saw a lady fall down due to UNCONTROLLABLE laughter, she hit the floor with a loud thud, her skirt flew up and she was immediately exposed, she didn’t have the self-control to pull her skirt down, people where walking over her. How is that respect?

    I hope this post somehow stirs something up in someone’s heart.

    Father, please give those deceived revelation, reveal to them the truth. Allow them to know we walk by faith and not by sight. In your name Jesus!

    • I would related your last paragraph back to you. Lord, let me be open to your truth…all of your truth, even that which I do not understand, but allow the Holy Spirit to show you His power. Don’t limit Him. Don’t assume everything that doesn’t fit your mental model isn’t from God, and don’t assume everything you see in the name of the Lord is from Him.

      How many times did Jesus offend other because he behaved in a manner they didn’t believe. And scripture says god can do ANYTHING He wants. Could he cause someone to experience such joy that they laugh? Of course. Could that experience of joy be so unexplainable, that one would laugh “uncontrollably?” Have you ever laugh so hard you had a hard time stopping? Then why couldn’t God produce something even greater in you.

      Is the fire tunnel true? I don’t know. I have listened to Bethel and know they have experienced miracle that I have not seen. PRAISE THE LORD! I have never seen someone walk on water, raised from the dead, walk through walls, but Jesus caused all of that to happen.

      Logic cannot be used when evaluating the Holy Spirit. just because some people have abused the name of the Holy Spirit doesn’t mean that He (Holy Spirit) doesn’t do things far beyond what you think are logical.

      I hope He reveals more and more of who He is, and speaks to you clearly. Thanks for reading, and may you be blessed in your faith.

      • yes craig, but the Holy spirit operates in complete submission to the father & the son & certainly will not go against whats in scripture… its time we became a whole lot more discerning church….

      • Some scriptures to consider:
        Matthew 24:4 NIV
        Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you.
        Matthew 24:11 NIV
        and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people.
        Matthew 24:24 NIV
        For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
        2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 NIV
        The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, [10] and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. [11] For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie [12] and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

  7. My concern here is there seems to be division in the body of Christ. The people involved here are our brothers and sisters in Christ. Most of my friends are involved in much of these activities, but I know they love Jesus deeply. I see spiritual fruit in their lives despite the strange activities that they’re involved in. It’s very hard and confusing. I am frequently asked to go out treasure hunting with them, but something in me feels resistant to this, despite the testimonies of healing and deliverance. I want to be stretched and used by God, but it seems forced to me.

    • I was so in the same place – some people I know have been dear, dear friends for a very long time… the concern about causing division in the body is very valid… however, I have to ask – how comfortable or easy would it be for you to share that “Check” of resistance that you feel with your leadership & your friends…

      do you have a feeling maybe that they would not “hear” that you have confusing feelings? consider for a moment tho, in the bigger picture – what truly is being promoted… is it powerful prophetic encounters, miracle signs & wonders amazing testimony of healings that are ambigious, exaggerated &/or unverified…

      Is Jesus & the saving work of the cross being talked about & promoted in more than equal measure… is the Gospel being shared during treasure hunts with people on the streets or are they (expected to) respond to the “supernatural” encounter they just got…. whacked with…

      if it feels forced to you – this indicates some obligation & pressure – & maybe some fakery if that is the case the “culture” or we could say the “spirit” behind it is not one that promotes freedom…. there has to be freedom for you to ask questions – there has to be freedom for people to opt out & refuse without fear of being “dismissed” & in a place of freedom where the Holy spirit abounds there would be a complete sense of peace … 2 Corinthians 3 v 17 says where the spirit of the lord is there is freedom

      no one wants division in the body, but with the introduction of these formulas to achieve a miracle sign & wonder zone as its primary objective – in place of the clear cut NT priority of properly preaching the Gospel with signs & wonders – naturally-supernaturally following on Im asking the bigger question of where the divisiveness is really originating from…

      • I am wondering why we accept God’s salvation as a “gift” which means we do not have to earn it, yet This group seems to overlook the fact that the gifts of prophecy, healing, and speaking in tongues requires a teacher or leader and several thousand dollars to receive in order to have this “gift”. When we speak of gifts in the Bible, it is through the anointing of the Holy Spirit and not a reward for academic achievement. It seems to me that this group seems to value the gifts rather than the giver. If they don’t utilize the these gifts as unto the Lord and neglect the message of the Gospel which does not require gifting as a condition to salvation which is the Gospel. There is a danger here of both believers and non believers that they might be confused into thinking that the nature of the gifts somehow deems some people better than others in God’s eyes, depending on which gifts they they have. God doesn’t need our help in granting the unmerited gifts from God which are freely given. Every gift is just as important as another because God is a just God.

      • Hi. Yes. I think you are right . I have observed first hand the way this plays out. In that if a person demonstrates more gifting in their life whether it be prophecy or healing others – the more favoured they seem to be. The more “spiritual” or Godly they are revered as. I think in all honesty I was being groomed into this mind set which for a time dictated my entire life. The dangers of course are that people seek the gifts to be & stay in favour. Whoa what an open door for fakery & deception hey!

  8. I am so glad I came across this sight. I have been attending what you call a “Bethelized” church and have felt this ‘check’ in my spirit about the fire tunnels. As usual, I begin thinking it must be me. I repented for being ‘religious’ and critical. I went though the fire tunnel a couple times because everyone else was- people I respect and view as spiritually mature. It felt like we were waiting in line for an amusement ride. Maybe I’m just too serious… ?

    • Hello vreiser2012

      it is so good to see you here – please feel very welcome…

      certainly it is “not just you” there are an increasing number of people contributing to the blog who feel the exact same way – myself included… personally, I was called a Pharisee for not accepting everything out of Bethel straight off & refusing to just “jump in ” when things didn’t line up with the scriptures.

      you are not too serious… instead you have demonstrated great discernment & spiritual maturity in testing things out as we are instructed & encouraged to do…

      in the intensity of these meetings where the firetunnel ministry occurs it is all too easy to get caught up in the flow of deceptive “group think”… it is a lonely place to be there & not participate when every one else in the room is caught up in it but we must know this whole firetunnel thing is not of God & that it provides nothing of value in building great Godly Character & attitudes for those that partake…

      be blessed as you stand up for HIS truth my friend… Z

  9. Hi everyone,

    Just found an interesting testimony regarding fire tunnels (read the comments too-not posted here):

    http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2009/03/06/strange-fire-before-the-lord/

    STRANGE FIRE BEFORE THE LORD
    Posted by pjmiller on March 6, 2009 in Discernment, The Church
    1 Votes

    Why O’ Why would any Christian allow just anyone and everyone to lay hands on them? Perhaps I’m overly cautious, but for good reason. When we are seeking prayer by the laying on of hands, we are at our most vulnerable, for naturally our spirit is more open at this time. And where are fire tunnel’s a recommended practice in the bible? sigh…

    Fire Tunnel: A phenomenon found primarily within the Toronto Blessing Movement, though reportedly also taking place in other modern renewal and revival movements. (apologeticsindex)
    Spiritual Pyromaniacs by Jackie Alnor

    You’ve heard the saying, “If you play with fire you’re going to get burnt.” Today’s “Christian” Gnostics seem to have an obsession with the elements of earth, wind, water, and fire. .. we hear the televangelists and “prophetic” folks scream “Fire”! over people who react with wild jerkings and flailing of limbs as they go down in a heap on the floor.

    What is this “fire” being thrown around on these platforms in such a showy fashion? The modern day “prophets” who throw fire around like it is theirs to command attribute this fire to the Holy Spirit. Yet, if they are correct, what is their biblical justification for doing so? Do we really want to “catch the fire” that these men and women are trafficking in?

    And now in Toronto John Arnott’s young people are involved in some of the scariest spreading of this fire onto other young folks who come looking for a spiritual jolt. They call this ceremony “fire tunnels” in which two rows of young people line up while a group of blessing-seekers go single file down the middle. As they proceed into the tunnel, shouts of “Fire” and “Fire on you” come out of the mouths of the imparters as they touch the seekers’ heads and foreheads in order to spread the fire. As they do, the recipients of these fire spirits jolt and jump around with some pretty scary looks on their faces. – (excerpt, November 12, 2007 – Spiritual Pyromaniacs)

    “You slaughtered My children and offered them up to idols by causing them to pass through the fire.” – Ezekiel 16:21

    Then they made their sons and their daughters pass through the fire, and practiced divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, provoking Him. – 2 Kings 17:17

    …and have built the high places of Baal to burn their sons in the fire as burnt offerings to Baal, a thing which I never commanded or spoke of, nor did it ever enter My mind; – Jeremiah 19:5

  10. hello Nothingcanstop me.. good to see you here;

    well you have said:

    Its sad to see other brothers and sisters who have never experience certain things in the kingdom judge and criticize. A critical spirit is sinful and you need to repent. Especially when God is moving and you say it is not God. Funny, you search the scriptures but you can not tell when God’s presence manifests. Sad reality.

    can I just say, that there is a whole lot of presumption here…. just so you know I have had the full fire tunnel experience… been through it – prayed for others in the lines of it & observed from my seat… Fire tunnelling was definitely a part of my experiences in the River movement…. on the basis of judging & criticizing — I simply questioned what I was doing & seeing..evaluating the outcomes against scripture – particularly relating to Fruit Of The Spirit from the passage in Galatians

    The word says that we MUST test things… & on testing if we find out that we have more questions than answers & that there is hypocrisy in the mix… this is not criticism but more of a discerning what’s really really going on….. It equals hypocrisy, this method of “praying for people” because it simply effects an in the moment touch or wonder – it does nothing for people any further than that– that is why they keep coming back for more – because of the “feel good factor” – which like a drug, increases in intensity each time..In my observance, people were the same sinful selves having gone through many firetunnels…(I think it is reasonable to look for increased fruit in people’s lives in evaluating its effectiveness – there was no personal judgement against individual from me, but a realisation, of a corporate lack of something that wasn’t presenting)

    We have to know that this practice is not some kind of “quick fix” route to getting anything we want in God plus our health & happiness & to think that it is (& that this mentality is acceptable & Godly in the church) – frankly, is “magical thinking”

    of course a critical spirit is sinful I agree with you here, but can I just ask if you maybe have been critical of myself & many on this blog with who have come to these conclusions… we have lived through this, we have sought God on our faces & with many many tears- we have searched the scriptures for clarity & direction & prayed earnestly that the truth would be revealed… Some of us have left our churches in extreme pain of separation… we wished we were in the wrong, so it could all be OK…& we wouldn’t have to do that…. but people of the Truth, & seeking the truth cannot continue in falseness… there comes a point where we have to call that in for our own lives in honesty before God & for some of us, He leads us on to talk about about what we have found out with others…

    when you talk of God’s presence, Im wondering what it was then in 1986 when I felt God for the first time in a “tangible way”, ( as many would say) there were no firetunnels, no drunk in the spirit, no visitations of angelic beings ( & if there were people kept quiet) & virtually no manifestations in any of the church at that time.. Any “manifestations” we had were considered demonic too…

    are you saying by default – that we need these experiences to encounter God- because that is just not true!

    Im wondering why it is that through scripture, & the early church, individuals would have a glorious encounter of God- again & again they would be on their face in tears of conviction of sin & come to repentance… aware of their sin & even more aware of his purity & holiness,,, afterwards – it would be clear to those around that the person had had deep communion with the Holy One… it was obvious… Furthermore their personal commitment to promote the Gospel & make Jesus ( the crucified Christ) known has been many times recorded in the sense that they DEVOTED their lives to this purpose… this meant they embarked on a journey of deep commitment, to the ways of the Spirit of God -maturity, growing up in all things – became the process more than living from one touch or encounter experience to the next – which is precisely what we see today.. They were not in it – for what they themselves could get out of it with selfish ambition

    in 1986 – when I had my first “encounter” (as people in the River would say) no one ministered to me – no one knew at all – it was between me & Him & yet people around me made comments that they were able to tell I was “very close to Jesus” there was no physical manifestation whatsoever. & boy that was real alright- in the spirit I began to “know” when HE was weeping or rejoicing over people. I connected with his heart, & he with me.. This was born out of deep reverence for him tho, & conviction of my unworthiness…HE is holy & I am not…. I had already been a christian a few years before this too

    so on balance of a lifetime of pondering about these things, being totally immersed in doing these practices -( going with the flow of those around me) observing, questioning & increasingly knowing the fuller counsel of the scriptures… I am able to stand in full confidence & say the things about firetunnels & the like that I have done… & I would urge you to do that same journey…

  11. God is our provider. He wants to provide our everything. The joy of the Lord is my strength. One of the manifestations of joy is laughter. Laughter is good for us. God loves to laugh and make us laugh. There are times to bow before our awesome God and there are times to hang out and laugh with Jesus and the Holy Spirit. God is not a military father figure who never allows us to have fun. Your view of the Father seems to lack the revelation of love and joy.

    When we go through fire tunnels we are not sinning. Just like Pentecost, when we get full of the Holy Spirit we sing praises to God and speak in tongues, prophesy, share the gospel and people are aware that God is real, are convicted of sin saved.

    Its sad to see other brothers and sisters who have never experience certain things in the kingdom judge and criticize. A critical spirit is sinful and you need to repent. Especially when God is moving and you say it is not God. Funny, you search the scriptures but you can not tell when God’s presence manifests. Sad reality.

  12. oh so they are calling them Joy tunnels as well… I didnt know that… can anybody share evidence of someone being convicted of their sin & a need for repentance before a Holy God from going through this thing…

    Im waiting…..

    Still waiting……

    • Fire tunnels?? Better call them: Way to hell!!! They make me sick! If they really knew the Holy Spirit and his touch…..but I guess it’s easy to go with the flow and rely on what you can feel. They can’t believe until they see His pierced hands….oh well, that’s not called FAITH in my Bible.

      • I am a born again Christian.Earlier this week I was laying on the couch and I had a vision of fire in a tunnel.I have never heard of a fire tunnel,so I began doing research.I felt like the Lord was trying to give me revelation about his word,but was unsure.I ended up on this site.I believe that GOD wants to bring revival to us through baptism of the Holy Spirit, but we must first be taught through his word,and willing to recieve.

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