Angelic Visitations & Glory Clouds

Angels  come for one reason & one reason only  – to deliver & be messengers of God’s Glory…  I did a little bible study  on this  & could find  not any reference  to an Angel of the Lord who just stood there  looking pretty… we heard reports from our Leaders that    a 3 year old  yes I did type that right – A 3 year old  told his mummy he had seen a blue angel in his bedroom.  This testimony was shared with the church as a legitimate encounter of Gods Glory…

However, someone bringing a challenging rebuking word from scripture is often not allowed to share it as it may be too negative…  crazy  out of balance… this for me prooves that experience is everything…  & instead of being encouraging, it makes people feel inadequate…  the most bold christian operating in all this stuff  is trumped by a 3 year old..  It pushes the body of Christ into extremes…

Imagine if stuff like this is happening all around  – but not too you or through you…  what would be  your response?   feeling like its unfair-  pretending you have had experiences or exaggerating the ones you have had- the Rhetoric is “push in”  or “press in to God”  (for more)  until what? until he delivers the  experience   so craved…  whilst in the waiting the feelings of inadequacy start to grow- “why not me”..  what’s wrong with me??

NOW  we see the truth:  the underlying attitude-   pride- seeking after signs for validation – misunderstanding about ones identity in Christ.  a total misrepresentation about what Christianity is all about…

Please- if you are identifying with this – dont feel blamed here – that is not my intention…   I’m just letting you know that it was me with those same feelings & attitudes..  Im totally identifying where this is at,  so we can unpack it a bit & start to dig through mud to reach the treasure.

What is worse – is that the supernatural culture- the environment-  has actually set this up & facilitated it.  (that means it isn’t our fault!)   Then when  an individual expresses a measure of distress or upset over inadequacy or is tempted to fakery-   the same culture deems it necessary to issue “ministry”  to help the person deal with it..     Are we seeing how this thing rolls???

2 members of my bethelized church saw a  Glory cloud roll in  at their house I have to admit I have no idea what that is about…. but it happened when it first started happening at Bethel…  I have seen the Bethel footage –   not a one of them is on their face  repentant before a Holy God…  there is another clip of a Glory cloud + golddust..  they actually have security/ bouncers  at the side of the stage removing people off  who are trying to collect the Gold dust ….  maybe they are worried that someone will get it tested lol..    Twice I smelled perfume  whilst worshipping…  I have no idea what that smell was about… but I think it was suggestabilty. as one *thinks*  they can smell it – everyone sniffs to confirm & it gets stronger  as it doesnt take much for your brain to take over…  The pastor himself  also told the church he seen a female angel….  wrong again!   sorry ’bout that; Angels are neither male nor female…  Im wondering if we were told that in order to prepare our minds to get the concept of Todd Bentleys female angel  called a later point

 we also have to remember that the Bible cleary cleary states that there will be decievers, Angels of light  but really demons…  ( I brought this to my leader & got well rebuked for pointing that one out  & told I should NOT waste time thinking such things)
so here we are…  these things are not leading us to repentance before Christ..  we are under slavery to them as we must have more & more – Experiences such as these cannot be biblically verified – they are of no long term substance- they  have no value in getting Jesus known or giving him glory…. people are not free. they dont grow or bring life in people – just confusion & distress  if there is some restriction on collecting up what God is supposedly pouring out…(Ie Golddust)  it becomes a meaningless activity & oppressive environment..   so in the light of that & the above scriptures…   what conclusions can we arrive at…??  its actually  OBVIOUS!!!!  x

14 thoughts on “Angelic Visitations & Glory Clouds

  1. Hello,
    I came across your site today as I have some questions about things I have seen posted on Facebook about bethel. I just wanted to put in one bit of input about the story involving the three year old boy.
    I am 34 and British and have been raised by christian parents. When I was 3 years old an angel came to me in my bedroom. He told me it was time for me to give my life to Jesus. I promptly ran to my mum, who was very skeptical, but I was completely serious. I meant business. I gave my life to Christ that day. I have never looked back. I have walked with God every day of my life ever since. Please, please, please remember that Jesus said to suffer the little children. Don’t despise the small things. Now, 31 years ago when I got saved, nobody had even heard of Bethel Redding. Please don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater! God can do anything. He is the one who creates. He never does the same thing twice in the same way. I love God with my whole heart. I’m so grateful He chose to save me at that tender age. He has spared me such trouble in my life.
    I can also say that coming into God’s presence is much easier for children because they don’t over think it like adults do.
    Before anyone asks I am also a well educated, professional scientist. I have a good brain and ask questions all the time. I study the bible and am a committed member of a church, I’m simply sharing a deeply personal testimony to illustrate that God does send angels to 3 year old children!!
    God bless

    • Hi Lindsey, what a fabulous testimony… im in no doubt you had a very real experience which directly lead you to knowing Christ… yes of course small children can have a response to Jesus in accordance with their age & understanding… I think tho to clarify the original point I made was that – messengers from God will always point to Jesus & seek to glorify him & second there is a huge huge difference between a small child receiving an angelic visitation – which is to do with the significance of that event for the individual (as in your case) in comparison with the position of a reported event, from a 3 year old which is used to teach or encourage the church in some way, without testing & in context of the manner of delivery, actually produces the opposite – effectualizing the inefficiency of the supernatural spirituality that many longstanding Christians are not engaged in – which produces a feeling of inadequacy….


  2. Hi,

    I thought this was an interesting comment made under youtube comments for the above video (not written by myself.)

    “I was a part of Kansas City IHOP. It’s a very scary place. I was led there by IHOP people who came to Northern California to participate in one our versions of “The Call.” I was a frequent partiicipator in the Redding and Toronto. I led worship there, I worked in their offices. I got out. There is nothing of God there, and I’m fearful for all who go there thinking they’ll find direction. Fortunately, we had the money and means to get out.”

    It would be interesting to contact that person, to know his or her story.



  3. Hi,

    I enjoyed watching some of this video very much, ESP the end of the video (21:49 — > end) I think he “hits home” (for me at least)

    Yes, it’s so strange about the “language” they use “shifting” etc. also “dna”

    • can I just say- that whilst this video brings out some very good points that I am in aggreement with… in the UK we would consider the swagger of this presenter a little flippant.. & a bit cynical. I think tho this probably just cultural difference… if we can put that aside & get down to that which he is saying its worth a watch

    • Tod is right to be troubled by Patrica King’s teaching. Where is the fear of God?

      But Tod must be very careful what he says about the work of the Holy Spirit’s nine gffts listed in 1 Cor 12. Very careful.
      Just as the 9 fruits of the Holy Spirit are for today, because the Holy Spirit has been sent from the Father, and is still present in the earth to glorify Jesus Christ. So too are His gifts as Paul describes. They are the gifts of the Holy Spirit. There were nine of them and there are still nie of them. For they belong to the Holy Spirit and to the Son and to the Father.

      They are not the gifts of the church. The nine fruits of the Holy Spirit are meant ot be showing out in the life of the EVERY believer. They are evidence of the work of the Holy Spirit being pressent; evidence of the indwelling Jesus Christ.
      The nine gifts of the Holy Spirit are administered specifcally at the discretion of the Holy Spirit according to the need and will of the Father. Paul says that we should seek GOD for the gifts of the Holy Spirit to bring blessing to the people of God and the witness of Jesus Christ to unbelievers. We should be patient and be glad if the Lord uses someone least expected. It has nothing to do with the vessel. It has everything to do with the Potter – the owner of the vessel. Those gifts are not th eproperty of the church or of a man or woamn. They always remain the property of the Holy Spirit. That is why Paul says that they are the gifts of the Holy Spirit. The fruits are for every believer without exception. The whole nine of them. But the gifts are “held” differently.

      The ‘perfect thing’ spoken of Paul in 1 Cor 13:10, is completeness for the saints. That completeness or perfection happens when the Lord Jesus Christ comes and we rise to meet Him with our glorified bodies. Then we will not need to prophesy to build up the saints, Then we will not need to comfort the saints with prophecy. Then we will not need to pray for the sick to recover. Then we will not need to speak in tongues in private prayer to edify ourselves for we will have all things complted in Christ Jesus at His appearing. Then we will not need to cast out demons, or raise the dead. That moment is the coming of the perfect “thing” which is not a thing but is .Jesus Christ Himself.

      While the canon may be complete, the translations we have are for the most part weakening the testimony of Jesus Christ, a little here and a little there. Some alterations, some additions. Hardly noticeable to the massses.

      The Scriptures we need, But are they perfect in their muliplicity of translations,… versions? Honestly?
      The Lord Jesus Christ is the Living Word, He is the perfect one. He as the infinite Word of God, is greater than the finite text of the Word of God. I say finite text because it only reveals some things about Jesus and the Father. Jesus said which is greater the gift or the altar which sanctifies the gift? Which is greater, the gold or the Temple which sanctifies the gold? Matt 23.
      Which is greater, the written word or the One who spoke it? We have a good thing in the Scriptures, even as they are. But Jesus is greater than the text, even if it could be perfect.

      What we have in the vary good translations is glorious (and there are few of them), but when we see Him for who He is, then we shall know as we are presently known.

      And that is what Paul is speaking about in 1 Corinthians 13. Now we see through a glass darkly, but when we see Him with spiritual eyes wide open, and our mortal bodies glorified, then we shall know and see and undestand like we never did when we havd the testimony of the written word. For the Living Word will have come to gather us to the Father.

      Tod please be careful when discussing the things of the Holy Spirit. . You may correct Patricia King, or many others, But God and His provision for the Church of Jesus Christ requires a great duty of care, which I do not see you displaying. You are sincere, but that is not enough. Be careful.

  4. Ok Im Going to ask some important & maybe basic questions to open this discussion up a little:

    first of all the scriptures say — Jesus Said in John 14 v 6 – Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me…..

    so when we experience the Presence of God WITHOUT Jesus in the process how can we be sure we have entered into the presence of the FATHER… ? could it be the father of lies in deceptive cloak?? or something other

    the confusion here abounds because Jesus as we know has Gone to be with the father & will return from there on the appointed day… so Jesus is present in Heaven… as is the father

    The Holy Spirit is the one who has been given to us as the comforter – the all powerful presence of God… he is looking always to promote the Glory of Jesus & does not seek worship for himself…

    so when we talk of the tangible “presence” we are talking of the Holy Spirit -right? BUT he is not the father, or papa or the Glory of God.. in the context of the fact that it is Jesus who is the one has bought sin & conquered over death & is lifted up.

    Titus 2 v 11 – 13 says

    For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men,JESUS 12 instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of JESUS ON HIS RETURN the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus, (words in capitals mine)

    unless we believe of course that Heaven can come down to earth right now before Jesus comes…

    now if we believe that heaven can come to earth in the here & now- what does this mean- that in fullness of that outworking & ie every single person on the planet operating in that zone. (as is the goal) – why would Jesus need to return on that basis? in effect he would be “already here”

    Furthermore, just to cause more confusion, the term the “presence” is termed by some as – the Gloraaaay (John Crowder) or the “Dove” (Leif Hetland) clearly when we start using interchangeable terms that have not got biblical grounding in proper context I believe it can & does lead to deceptive spirits of confusion – playing games with our understanding…

    please can we discuss….

  5. I think from what I have seen, people want to experience more of the spectacular supernatural happenings for 2 reasons…
    1) its exciting & feeds our entertainment hunger – which is totally fleshy
    2) it affirms in our minds, that God is really real, really present & really loves us… BUT these things are true without these happenings.. if we have this mindset then, if we are truly honest we have very little real faith In God… what we are in effect saying to him, is give me more proof in order for me to believe… if we have more proof on this basis, we have less faith..

    Jupeter- please could you explain what you mean when you say ” the presence” its a term we hear a lot & it would be good to have your clarification on it.. thanks x

    • Hmm, well “the presence of God” can be experienced a variety of different ways (as explained to me by Steven Nicholson, from the Evanston Vineyard) Quite often for me it’s just a *peace* But it’s just something I can sense (I don’t know if I’m just very “sensory” …) but I can breathe it in. It’s like a heaviness but not in a negative way. I’d have the presence of God all day if I could.

      I used to do a lot of writing on my blog – and every time I’d press “post”, I’d feel the presence of God. So, I kept writing, each day. (because I’d always feel the presence after I posted, haha!!) So, whatever it is – I feel the presence of God – then I’m like – I’m just going to keep doing that.

      note: I don’t have to be doing anything “religious” to experience. Yes, sometimes in church or during worship, I used to feel “the presence of God” when I’m at work. it was always like (to make the situ weirder) at the same time, too. (maybe just confirmation that God wants me to keep working at pay my bills, I don’t know) yea presence of God, I love it.

      So, not just necessarily you will need to be at church or during worship. But I remember Steve used to say – there are a variety of ways people exhibit the presence on them. I don’t remember all of what they were though. some other ways though. But for me it’s like a deep peace and it also affects my senses.

      Hope that helps!!

    • We are living in perilous times just as our Saviour said. Perilous times in the nation, and in the ‘church’. But as we hide ourselves in jesus Christ and in His words of pure truth, then we will be kept safe, for He is our Salvation (Ps 27:1)

      As to signs and wonders, etc, there is so much of the counterfeit going on it is no wonder that many are pulling back from the whole notion of signs and wonders…miracles, gifts of the Holy Spirit being available for today. We could all say with ease – I don’t want anythign to do with it; it’s all false.

      But that is exactly what the devil wants us to think. He does not want us to even consider that there is any genuine miracles or gifts for the church today. He has really achieved a great victory in the minds of many by his wiles. Satan knows that if the real power is dismissed, then he can make a killing.

      What we must do in the face of so many rampant lies, and so much fakery all in the name of God, even in Jesus’ name, is to get our eyes back on who Jesus is and what HE HIMSELF HAS SAID.

      The antidote to error is truth. The existence of error proves the existence of truth. The existence of a counterfeit ten dollar bill, is evidene of a true ten dollar bill in current circulation. No gangster would counterfeit a bit of money that was no loger legal tender. That would be plain madness. He is too clever for that. And so the devil is too clever to make a counterfeit of something that is no longer tenable in God’s eyes.

      If you can see where this comment is heading you will understand that for evey counterfeit miracle, ther are genuine ones acceptable to God. Now do not be alarmed and think I am saying there is genuine gold dust that falls from Heaven in a meeting. That kind of miracle does not edify. It appeals to the senses and the greed of men. Satan wants to get people off the practical miracles and promote the bizarre that stirs the senses for excitements’ sake. It does not benefit people. Nothing Satan does is practical, it has no real value behind it.

      When God produced miracles, like the feeding of the five thousand, or the walking on the water, or turning the water into wine, there was a real need behind them all. The crossing of the Red Sea, had a very practical application.
      The healings that Jesus worked, the setting free of people from demonic unclean spirits; the raising of the dead, all had practical application. Jesus never did anything to show off. Jesus did not do them to get a crowd. Jesus was not interested in impressing the public, nor did He ask for money. Nor did He have any books to sell. He had no overheads.
      Jesus only did the miracles He did, all of them, for one reason, because His Father required it at the time. While He was moved with compassion for the people that was bathed in His own love for His Father, in order to please Him in faithful obedience..

      As we look to Jesus, we see that He told His disciples to instruct the new diciples to do all that He had commended them, the twelve, the seventy, to do. We read that in Matthew 28.
      One of the things Jesus cammanded His disciples to do was to hal the sick and cast out devils. Very practical things to do.
      As one preacher said a number of decades ago, the reason why Jesus cast out so many demons from so many people is that they were oppressed that much by the unclean spirits. Lying spirits, angry spirits, tormenting spirits, all kinds of evil – spirits. Is today any different?
      The reason why Jesus healed so many sick people of so many diseases was because there were so many sick people. Is today any different. We are constantly told that there has never been so may people living on the earth at one time. If this is so, recorded history can inform us that today is the sickest generation ever to live on the face of the earth. With all the modern medicine, and pharmacueticals, and poeople livng longer in the west at least, sickness is abounding more and more.

      Hebrews tells us that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. Matthew tells us that Jesus told His disciples when they prayed to say “Our Father…..thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Revelation tells us that there is no sickness in Heaven. There is no demonic oppression either.
      Jesus told the people in Nazareth, “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me”. For what? To heal, restore, deliver, release, comfort, and so on. This was ll practical. Jesus was not talking about simply consoling someone in the disease, or afflcition, as if to say “Never mind. Be patient. When I come again, I will heal you then. No, a thousand times no.

      James says that if you have something in your hand to give to someone, and all you say to them is bless you, your religion is vain. Jesus was given the power of the Holy Spirit to heal, and deliuver the people He lived amongst. It was right then to give them what He had. Peter and John when going into the temple to pray, said to the beggar man – Silver and gold I don’t have, but such as I have I give you.. In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, rise up and walk. Peter took hold of the man’s hand an lifted him up. The man was expecting to recive something from them. He got more than what he bargained for. Healing for his crippled body.

      Has the power of God weakened since those days? Has the Holy Spirit lost a few of His gifts since then, or has He shut shop and put a sign on the door saying, Sorry, closed for business…go to your local church and they may be able to help you…. with a bit of gold dust, something that will tickle your senses?

      The same God who looked upon the people in jesus’ day, looks upon the people of this geenration today with the same compassion, and with the same power and authority He had back then.
      The big problem today is that we have thrwon the baby out with the dirty bath water. Or we have simply believed the bold faced lie that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are no longer for today. And that all the fakery proves it.

      Nothing could be further from the truth.

      Let us remember our Lord’s words when He said Freely you have received. Freely give.
      Then we must ask ourselves – What is it that we have received when we believed in Jesus Christ as our Lord over all things including sicknesses and diseases, and demons, and every false thing, and every sin?

      Acts 10:38…..Go and do likewise. But if we do not have such grace to help the needy then we should seek the Lord until He grants us that grace. And every single believer does not have to meet every single need. But we all can pray that the Lord will work once again for His glory alone.

      There is great need, but there is a Greater God who is still willing to deliver His peole not just from sins but from all the power of the enemy…read Acts 10:38 again

      Hope this heps
      Looking unto Jesus…till He comes


  6. I just didn’t feel the presence of God (to be honest) when it appeared…so disappointing. I’d rather have the presence…

  7. Hi, I can tell you that I was there once when the “Glory Cloud” appeared.

    All I can tell you is: I did not feel the presence of God (I know that is very subjective).

    But the Bible says there are false signs and wonders.

    Also, the entire experience was a little “golden calf” for me (I kept just being reminded of that story) E.g., people just seemed to worship it – that “gold dust”

    I was like – it’s cool that it’s there, but I don’t worship it.

    People just kept singing songs, and they wanted more and more gold dust. I was like…okay..but I didn’t worship it.

    People’s attitudes towards the gold dust bothered me. Like they worshiped *it* (the gold dust).

    so, could it be from God? Yes.

    A friend of mine was there when it “rained” indoors. He was a ministry school student. He said it wasn’t really like rain/actual rain. It was just more like some droplets, and he wondered – because it had rained earlier that day – if it was like some kind of leak. That is just what he told me.

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