you wanna join a “movement” – Go join the Boy Scouts!

Yes  because, worldwide,  Boy Scouts is considered exactly that – a “movement”


originally based on pseudo military disciplines – Im guessing (as I have never been a member)  that   this particular organisation looks very different than it did when it started  a good 100 years now  I think..


& that is just the point  a “movement” moves –   everything about it changes & adapts to suit the current members, current culture & all sorts of things to make it appealing & attractive for new members to join & old members to stay committed…


it has longtime bothered me that those in the “river” term this thing  a “movement”  – it implies monumental permission for change of absolutely anything  that no longer fits…  in  other words  the outworking of the original fundamental principles can be adapted or discarded by common agreement…


now of course – times & attitudes  change – technology moves on & new opportunities developed    all of that is fine  these things  styles of dress – modes of music – are bye the bye..


but what cant be changed & what should never be changed or adapted or updated or ignored is the absolute truth of the Gospel of Christ crucified…  the centrality of our risen saviour Jesus…   what cant be updated or reinterpreted  for our modern ears (& hearts) is the final authority of the written word of God…  to do so in any context means that no longer – do we consider it “the final authority”    Christianity then morphs into something else…  there is to be NO movement away from this..


go read 1 John 2 –   the whole chapter is helpful     v 24  says this:    “see  that  what you have heard from the beginning remains in you.  if it does you will remain in the son & in the father – & this is what he promised us – even eternal life…”


in context – the beginning – talked of here is not our personal 21st century understandings – but the teaching of the authentic, original, infallible Word of God…


I for one don’t want “movement”  – I want to stand strong & secure on the dependable Word of the Lord –  I have found it is the only teaching that I can fully trust..



7 thoughts on “you wanna join a “movement” – Go join the Boy Scouts!

  1. Yes indeed Zazzy — “The River” deserves all the descriptions you give it.
    I would say it is very dirty water.
    Your last paragraph has reminded me of what I consider the worst thing about this poisoned water,
    Its many wrong teachings and practices are seriously bad but what I also observe is what is not in it.
    The angel announced the coming of our Lord in the gospel with the instruction “you shall call His Name Jesus; for He shall save His people from their sins”
    What a wonderful succinct statement of the main purpose of the sending of God’s Son into the world.
    Where does one even begin to unpack all that is contained in those few words.
    I find very little if anything of this truth in the teaching of The River, Emergent church , Toronto etc.
    It is a different and a false gospel. How many truly have been saved, are being saved and will be saved in this dirty water?
    You cover in other parts of your website a good deal of this subject –I am just underlining what the Bible gospel is really all about and what I believe all of us of a like mind should be proclaiming in the days ahead.
    Hallelujah ; what a Saviour.

    • YAY Derek.. lets preach preach the Gospel of Christ Crucified, loud & strong… Any signs & wonders to be had – they will follow on.

      yes what a saviour indeed:

      Hebrews 9 v 19 – 23 (KJV)

      Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having a high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

  2. Personal Hello Zazzy
    Just to let you know that we met together at our home yesterday.
    During a time of worship ,sharing God’s word and prayer we were praying for you and family and for your work in His name
    Our love D

    edited for privacy: Zazzy

  3. Hello Zazzy
    May we add the suggestion that the use of the term “movement” by those at the top ( or should that be source to avoid mixing metaphors ) of ” The River ” are probably also implying that it is a movement of the Holy Spirit.
    Most believe for example that a movement of God began the Methodist Church in the 18th century with the revivals accompanying the remarkable and anointed preaching of John Wesley.
    There is hardly a town ,village or hamlet throughout our county of Cornwall which did not have a Methodist Chapel as an outcome of this movement of God’s Spirit.
    What that movement has now become is another question. Our first hand observations are that it has moved a long way from true new testament church in belief and practice.
    Likewise we believe that what became known as the ” Charismatic Movement ” in more recent church history was also a move of God’s Spirit.
    It brought about the restoration of teaching and experience of Baptism of the Holy Spirit and exercise of the gifts of the Holy Spirit throughout the wider church. This restoration had been mainly only known before in the Pentecostal Church — itself created by a movement of God’s Spirit.
    What the charismatic movement and Pentecostalism is becoming is again another question.
    Rooftops and Rafters is rightly challenging what we believe to be many of the false teachings and practices of this” movement ” of which we suppose ” The River ” would consider itself to be a part or maybe to have superseded
    How much now is of the Holy Spirit is a vital question .
    It behoves us all to test the test the spirits and to weigh against scripture what may be claiming to be a ” Movement ” ( of God’s Spirit ? )
    Are we seeing the worldwide apostate church of the book of Revelation taking shape in our lifetime. ?
    Will ” The River “, the emergent church, the Roman Catholic Church etc. and eventually ” other faiths” we “Moving” together and becoming a Movement. ?
    If ever there was a time for all who truly know and love our Lord Jesus to stand firm in Him and contend for the faith it must be now.
    Lord please help us that it be said of us as was said of David ” he served God in his generation” .


    • wow Derek thanks for these amazing clarification & expansions of thought –

      yes I do believe you are right in that the terminology of the word “movement” started out as per relating to a “move of God” a movement of the Holy Spirit – for renewal & revival…

      but also that this word has now been changed in emphasis & meaning so as no longer relating to the change brought out through conviction & repentance in individual hearts (which have happened in large clusters of people at one time or another) but now encompasses a large swathe of people who are pursuing a “miracle sign & wonder zone” – corporate supernatural lifestyles & domination of these “power displays” above all else that has ever gone before.. signing up to this “movement” through acceptance & compliance with everything experienced in physical, tangible – measurable ways…

      this “power of agreement” – unity creates the “movement” – people are considered (or consider themselves) to be either in or out of “the flow” by how much acceptance they demonstrate.. many wanting to be accepted at the very highest levels tend to demonstrate the most acceptance – the wackier & weirder to extreme – is proof, if you will of how far “in” they have gotton..

      by this time of course – it is not about the surrendered humbled heart before a Holy God – it is all about the level of “supernatural- ality” ( is that a word?) displayed in ones “ministry” — this is why there is talk of “miracles” & angelic encounters at every turn – how much revival surrounds each one- as one is now a “revivalist” rather than just a mere Christian. this is the “movement…” to be promoting a “glory zone” that promotes the “revivalist” & his works – (of which the name of Jesus is used as a facilitator) more than it is promoting a glorified risen saviour – Jesus – who came to deal with the problem of sin (that separates us from God & successfully overcame it at the cross.

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