Drunk in the Spirit!?!?

The Holy Spirit   is not here & was not sent   TO MAKE US FEEL GOOD!  or in anyway give us physical sensations to reassure us of his presence.. with “experiences- encounters – or special touches”

how can I say that???

because in …..

John 16  v 8 – 15   Jesus talks about the promise of the Holy spirit coming & the purposes of that:

 And He, when He comes, (talking about the Holy Spirit)   will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment; concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 and concerning righteousness, because I go to the Father and you no longer see Me; 11 and concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged.

12 “I have many more things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. 13 But when He,the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.14 He will glorify Me, for He will take of Mine and will disclose it to you. 15 All things that the Father has are Mine; therefore I said that He takes of Mine and will disclose it to you.

we see from the passage:

The Holy Spirit comes to

  • convict us of sin –   (principles of which contained in the word)
  • to promote right standing with God (through repentance    (defined through the word & actioned through the promotion of Christ’s saving grace)
  • helps us to  identify & recognise deception  through discernment & helps us practically to overcome evil/oppression in the world  (deception & evil being defined by the word)
  • speak God’s words  – he himself does not  ”go off the map”  (always matches up with scripture under New Covenant principles)
  • Glorify Jesus  – above everything ( doesnt seek any glory or praise for himself)
  • reveal that which is of God & make it known to our hearts… ( is prophetic – a counsellor- but always in submission to the above points)

When we see some leaders presenting the Holy Spirit differently  in contradiction to this overview  – it has to be time to ask some serious questions…  about whether it is the Holy Spirit  or a deceptive False demonic spirit acting as an imposter… making people behave – against their sensibilities & sometimes free will…    at work..  are we seeing this or the above  in our amazing times in the “glory zone”  ask yourself which it is…

time & time again the scriptures warn against DRUNKENESS…  why then would the Holy Spirit  – in all power & presence produce a physical response identical in its outward appearance…   he doesnt of course…  becasue to do so would be contradictory of the precious word of God

Is Jesus being glorified  when people are rolling on the floor doing this stuff?

please check out the scriptures for your self…    simply type the words “drunk-   drunken – drunkard – drunkardness  into the search bar over at bible gateway…  research it out ….  & be blessed…

further reading:           http://www.gty.org/Blog/B130730

the Gospel of salvation- the Gospel of the Kingdom

It no longer surprises me that there is confusion as to what the GOSPEL   actually is..

Latter Rain teaching-  which is being fully incorporated into the “River”  – churned out by Bethel & adopted by every neo charismatic church in the loop  – are teaching very clearly  the “Gospel of the KINGDOM’   which could also be termed KINGDOM NOW   & is completely dominionist in nature….


now as phrases go Jesus did teach about the Kingdom of God…   He said in John 18v 36  my kingdom is NOT of this world… 

the phraseology of the “Gospel of salvation”  is not a biblical definative   – in the sense that it is not stated  as a different concept away from the kingdom of God…  biblically-   the Kingdom of God that Jesus talks of includes salvation…   often on the blog I refer to the Gospel of “Christ Crucified”   all of these things are one & the same…  the word “gospel”  means good news  so the biblical gospel – which is widely referred to throughout NT  early church teachings  is the good news of Jesus…   who he was – what he came to do & how he accomplished that for all time…   —   if you are not sure about these things please refer  to the True Jesus- false Jesus page  on this blog…

the differentiation between the Gospel of salvation & the Gospel of the Kingdom has clearly come right out of the latter rain NAR – neo- charismatic teaching..

effectively – what is being taught is that

a)  salvation  on its own is not sufficient —  there is an underlying sense that Salvation is old fashioned- outdated – not powerful enough & not really that necessary for a person to operate or be activated by the Holy spirit to meet their destiny or to go with the flow of the greater agenda of this movement..

b) the Gospel of the Kingdom is superior on every level because it is a demonstration of spiritual power

c) the Gospel of the kingdom is all about bringing heaven to earth – the manifest presence of God on the earth which MUST happen  in all fullness in order for Christ to return  —  the 7 mountains mandate strategy supports & serves this view completely.

d) the Gospel of the Kingdom is measured in terms of effectiveness & success simply by the amount of observable signs -wonders & miracles that occur in the midst which are then attributed to the work of the Holy Spirit..

e) the Kingdom of God  is being built, established & released by christians who are fulfilling their spiritual destiny & heritage… Revival & unity  must occur at all costs..


the sticky problem is that this is NOT what the bible teaches…

first off paul teaches: in 2 Corinthians 11 v 1-4  (ESV)

I wish you would bear with me in a little foolishness. Do bear with me! For I feel a divine jealousy for you, since I betrothed you to one husband, to present you as a pure virgin to Christ. But I am afraid that as the serpent deceived Eve by his cunning, your thoughts will be led astray from a sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

there are a couple of things in this passage to unpack:

  • the church is betrothed to one Husband who is Christ –  in purity…   this means dealing with sin & error both as individuals & corporately..  when Jesus returns he will have a bride who is clothed in holiness   – nothing about dominating  & ruling the world on his behalf before he appears.
  • led astray from a sincere & pure devotion to Christ  –   this devotion starts with  the really obvious step of knowing & being totally grounded in the word of God…  it is his word after all &  it is living & active — Further more  in John 1 it talks about Jesus being the word of God – we reject & neglect the written word of God – we reject Jesus..  it is that simple
  • furthermore – lets be clear  – it does NOT say  here  devotion to the outworking of signs & wonders
  • v 4  a different Jesus- different spirit – different Gospel  than the one Paul preached…   the Church of today  –   (if we look at it from God’s point of view who is outside of time)   has to be preaching & proclaiming the very same Gospel   that was preached in & by the early church…  if not – the spectrum of time which God sees completely   –  highlights the deviation from the original
  • Paul anticipates that there will be those who will accept a different Gospel readily enough —   this is a warning to us as much as it was when he wrote it…  if not the scriptures have lost their relevance & become as worthless…


so here are some things the bible teaches about some of the things we have been discussing;

Jesus said:     I will build My church, and the forces of Hades will not overpower it.  Matthew 16v 18

                         Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God will come, He answered them, “The kingdom of God is not coming with something observable   Luke 17 v 20


Hebrews 12 v 28      Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us hold on to grace. By it, we may serve God acceptably, with reverence and awe,

1 Timothy 1 v 15-16  This saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance: “Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners”—and I am the worst of them. 16 But I received mercy for this reason, so that in me, the worst of them, Christ Jesus might demonstrate His extraordinary patience as an example to those who would believe in Him for eternal life.


      2  Thessalonians  2 v 3 & 4      let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day  (the day of the return of Christ)  will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

the bottom line is that the scriptures do not teach –

  • dominion – taking the world for Christ before he comes
  • Revival – on a mass world scale
  • that there is another Gospel other than that of Christ Crucified —   who he is & how  he accomplished victorious work on the cross is central to everything
  • that the Kingdom of God can be built by people
  • that the success of the effectiveness of “works”  to build & establish the kingdom can be in anyway measured..
  • anything about the 7 mountains mandate – this would be a completely foreign concept to the early church

my thoughts are that on the basis that differing points of view are  being deliberately created here by the neo charismatic crowd about what the Gospel really is & the  Big names   are teaching something so different from that of the scriptures  it is creating confusion…  just that on its own is an indictor of error on a mass scale….   please don’t be sucked into the deception  – research the scriptures yourself…



further reading: these sites detail more fully the points I have made here






Another New Christian

I am incredibly pleased to announce that  Luke  – contacted me through the blog & has become a Christian..   he writes the following

Dear LORD I know I’m a sinner, I have broken your holy laws, and I know I’m unworthy of you and I’m very very sorry: I accept the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ who died for my sin and the sin of the whole world I put my faith in for the forgiveness of my sin and ask that you put His blood on my  account, I love you Jesus Christ and I repent of my sin and I trust you and with all I am all I have to offer I turn to you and you alone, and I make you Lord of my life no matter what it looks like, no matter what it feel’s like I give my self to you Jesus
Thank You for your sacrifice Holy Jesus; I love you with all my Heart; thank you God for saving me praise you Lord.
In the name of the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit amen 
Im sure he will post the story of his journey   but for right now we rejoice with all of heaven over one sinner who has turned from sin to follow Christ wholeheartedly…
All the Glory to our wonderful Lord & Saviour   Jesus Christ..
well done Luke   & a very warm welcome to the Blog
Friends – please do pray for Luke –  in these early days  as this is very valuable..

Discernment Column (4) on Shabar Ministry

Godlee4life has done some excellent research articles on SOZO & SHABAR

Christ Rescued Me!

Theological Thoughts


Shabar Mantras: defined as “instruments” or “tools” of thought; used during occult meditation, along with “positive confessions” in order to identify with “Christ-consciousness” and transcend every obstacle

Shabar Ministry: an advanced form of Sozo (last month’s topic) that uses inner healing “tools” that have parallel implications within the occult. Yet, it is secretly slipping into many mainline churches and organizations such as Crisis Pregnancy Centers; promoted as “Christian counseling” under the Hebrew guise Shabar, which means broken. For those being targeted are the broken-hearted.

In Shabar Ministry, theological thoughts are distorted by “instruments of thought,” where contrived confessions and strange “tools” such as metaphorical doors, walls, and Father Ladders are used to supposedly help the broken-hearted realize their “identity in Christ.”  However, the hidden theology behind the Shabar “identity in Christ” cliché is not as innocent as it sounds, for it is the heretical doctrine of Identification…

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Hallmarks of the True church

The true church is:

  • preaching & teaching  the Gospel of Christ crucified..  encouraging people to make a response  based on their realisation of their sin & Christ’s amazing saving grace…  Gospel truth of the cross is a central reference point.  It is referred to often as a central theme in teachings & activities..


  • gathering around a risen saviour – Jesus  more than it is  programmes- innovative ideology, social tea & cakes, signs& wonders, social action  or anything else…


  • teaching  FROM the bible – the word of God…  rather than  teaching “ideas”  that are then justified by the utilising of particular scriptural texts


  • expecting & encouraging & helping  its people to live in a Christ like way- demonstrating the infilling of the Holy Spirit  evident in the increasing characteristics found in Galatians 5 – the fruit of the spirit


  • NOT a business..   the church is not here to market a brand,  (itself) resources or products as a way get closer to God, know his thoughts or interpret the scriptures  or to make money to perpetuate itself


  • NOT  an organisation or movement that promotes the idea that “Leadership” is a goal to be attained –  status, power & position mean nothing in terms of rightstanding before God.


  • Is NOT concerned with numbers, statistics or bums on seats..     true hearts before God are loved, encouraged & validated..  true discipleship is to this end


  • understanding that people come to Christ through repentance as an individual…  & that the gathering together is a gathering of individuals  each an equal member of the whole body of believers


  • NOT concerned with charity status in order to get tax deductions from the state as a way of ensuring extra income to benefit  itself


  • Has NO superstars, NO Divas – NO ranking  & No pedastals to put them on


  • Understands that it can build nothing-  because Jesus said that HE would build HIS church  where the gates of hell will not be able to prevail against it..  Matthew 16 v 18  & that the Kingdom of God is being received..  – poured out –    Hebrews 12v 28


  • Doesn’t make special exceptions for sinful actions of its prominent people & leaders  –  infact  recognises that church discipline should be more thorough for people with responsibilities for others.


  • considers the word of God as the final authority- does not go beyond its  bounds & is happy to receive biblical correction when the challenge comes from anyone within the church who duly searches the scriptures for the (balance) of truth..


  • does not use fancy methods  to draw people to itself  but promotes Christ crucified & is more concerned with the worship of Jesus in spirit & truth than it is with making “seekers”  feel comfortable..


  • making available  the ordinances of Baptism  & Holy Communion  to believers  – regularly…


Im sure there are more…  please add on your thoughts..